376. - B.J. Novak

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. What's really good, Jason? A special, very special Friday taping of your thrice weekly podcast from your friends chris black and jason stewart aka chris black and them jeans how are you i'm good i'm uh i'm trying to get into the zone you know it is tough to do four podcasts in one week but when uh when this guest calls and we and we answer well i guess when we call and then he pushes last minute and then we rescheduled we answer that call i think when i've been in touch when there's a 40 email chain with his press department um we you know we answer the call but yeah i mean this is a this is a white whale for us as far as how long gone goes um we we of course um kind of developed a friendship after a courtship and now we're edging into a professional relationship which means BJ better start sucking today. We did sort of dog whistle this podcast into existence by mentioning his stick man like abilities through the years. And after we did link at the tower, he said, I learned what a stick man was from listening to your podcast. And I said, well, brother, that sounds meta to me.

And it is true, while you guys were watching reruns of The Office, he was studying the stick and how to use it in a multitude of positions. Beyond checking in with his banker at City National once a month to make sure those residual checks were still clearing, check out The Office on Delta, anywhere you watch TV, really. But no, BJ is a legendary actor, comedian. Harvard graduate. He has a new movie out called Vengeance that is interestingly about a journalist and podcaster that travels from the Big Apple to West Texas to investigate the death of a woman who he once smashed. So this is hitting very close to home for everyone involved on this podcast today. It is. Because when we had dinner with BJ, he was explaining to us the plot of the movie because I think they were in final edits when we saw him. And our fellow dinner guest, John Mayer, has a cameo. Ashton Kutcher is in it, Boyd Holbrook, Dove Cameron. And I asked BJ, and I was a little aggressive, I have to admit. I'm like, you're going to write a movie about podcasting, and you're not going to include... myself and jason that seems script supervisor chris black and dj them jeans a cameo is obviously welcome but i would also kind of like that behind the scenes check like the sag insurance is great but i'm going to need a script supervisor fee as well and he didn't really have an answer for us jason if you remember he was sort of docking duck ducking and dodging that question that you flew at him I think that's kind of par for the course with these Hollywood types, as you'll kind of see. I mean, I've been living here my whole life. That's right. I'm still learning the ropes. I'm learning the ropes. I was whipping down Forest Lawn when you were still in diapers, boy. You done come a long way, but you ain't there yet. Okay, sweetheart? I'm sure an experienced Hollywood veteran like BJ can give me all the kind of tips and tricks I need to, you know.

get a table at Dan Tana's on a Friday, you know, get my script made. What to do when you killed a valet guy, you know. Exactly. Mayor has a guy, but his guy's out of town, so then what? BJ, sorry to call you so late, but Jason, fuck, Jason ran over the valet's foot at the Beverly Hilton. Yeah, but we, you know, you know how long gone does. I'm sure BJ has done. Late Night with Seth Meyers and Jimmy Fallon and Colbert. He's done all his little programs. And every single episode. He's already had to be like, so BJ, I don't know anything about this movie. Tell me everything about it for the 900th time today. So we know we're just basically going to talk about different sushi restaurants in Hollywood. Try to figure out if we are Eskimo brothers or something. I also like to talk to Harvard graduates as well. That's kind of my kink. We've actually had a decent amount of Harvard graduates on. It's a little weird. They like to slum it with us. That's part of the program. I'm actually pulling a TJ today. I had to rush back to the house to take a quick shower because my workout got bumped so late because I had some calls with Europe this morning. Then I ran into a friend of the show, legendary Nick Wooster at the gym. So we had to have a Kiki, of course. And that just kept pushing me back. I didn't even have time to get a smoothie. So I'm a little out of sorts. Damn, brother. Well, I actually had so much time. I made a smoothie this morning extra slow after the gym. I really took my time with it. I was like, how much peanut butter? I kind of waited out by the gram just because I had enough time to play around with it. I like that. I like that. So, I mean, in bigger news, I mean, I'm sure BJ's movie is fine and all, but the budget was only $5 million. So we're mostly going to be talking about. the new beyonce i'm assuming uh i have not listened to it because i don't care about rehashed dance music uh i don't care about real dance music so i i don't know i mean what do you think i mean obviously you you love it i guess i haven't i gave it a one quick listen but it was at like 6 15 in the morning like on kind of low macbook speakers so

I didn't really give Sis the attention that she deserved. Has the limited edition gatefold vinyl not arrived yet? The Crosley has been warmed up, I'm sure, so you're just kind of waiting on the vinyl to land before you get it. No, no, no. I ordered my vinyl copy on Essence what seems like months ago, but they must have me fucked up if they think I'm going to pay the Canadian customs on. Because I ordered the heavy 160-gram vinyl. Are you saying, Jason, that your vinyl weighs a ton? Is that what you're saying? In this instance, yes, I am saying that. Okay, all right. Well, I mean, I'll probably give Beyonce a listen if I'm forced to, to enter some sort of club or something. But other than that, I'm probably not going to spin it because I just can't care. I like her. I think she's talented and she's a superstar, but the music is just not it. You know, Destiny's Child, amazing songwriting, dancing, the whole motherfucking thing. But after a while, you know, you just get wound up and chewed up and this and that, and 50,000 people got to touch everything you're doing, and you got this and that. Again, I think the worst thing that's happened to popular music is the discovery of dance music. No. Yeah, look at Drake's album. No one cares. No, it's not the discovery of dance music. It's dance music coming out of the underground and into the mainstream is the problem because, All the music that is sort of being co-opted right now by everyone, Beyonce and The Weeknd and whoever else is doing this shit, you know, was maybe four or five years ago popular, and dance music has sort of moved on and progressed, and it's in a whole new place now. So that's what makes this Beyonce album sound like it's made for 40-year-olds. Well, I mean, it is. But I'm the only 40-year-old in the club. So it don't make no sense. It don't make no sense. But there's millions and millions of people who will, Beyonce could literally put out anything and they will say that this is genius. And I think that we've moved into a place where that's just dangerous stuff, man. Then there are 18,000 people like that who would do the same for us, Chris. That's right. And we love those 18. I did listen to the.

The new Maggie Rogers, which has some good slappies on it. But, you know, I went to San Vicente Bungalows with Ben Edgar last night. We shut the fucking place down. You already know. I don't think you did shut the place down, Chris. That's right. I think you guys went home at 8.15. No, it was actually 9.45. That's why I was going to boast. It's because we were there quite late. especially for Ben, who hasn't been partaking, so he's looking quite youthful. And it kept our bill down, which is nice. It's rare that I go to eat with anyone who doesn't add $50 to Bill with maybe a spicy margarita, skinny, of course, or a martini. Don't come for your life partner and your... Podcast partner like that. So for Ben and I to be able to only spend $100 each for some of the finest food in Los Angeles, it feels like highway robbery. So you only had to spend $100 each to eat this kind of IKEA cafeteria food. That's right. But surrounded by a star. I'm sure Clooney was there. I believe NBA player John Wall was sitting behind us with some tasteful jewelry on. Who else you got? That's it. I didn't really – we sat in – I would have preferred a Paul Wall myself. I don't think Paul Wall can come to L.A. You know what I mean? If he goes out of town for the weekend, the grill business kind of falls apart. He can't find a manager. I thought it was like a warrant situation. Oh, no, no, no, no. He's clean now. He's cleaned up. He's actually a little too clean, if you ask me. I would agree. I would agree. But, yeah, so I got to see Ben, got to catch up with him, which was very nice. We went to Major Domo last week. As much as I love a Sun Gold Tomato, and they are nature's candy, a little heavy-handed with those. With those major demos. Tomatoes should be used sparingly, if at all, and maybe only on a cold sandwich. I love the idea of a cold sandwich. I sure do want a cold sandwich. Well, you know what I mean. A classic veggie sandwich is not warmed up. I know what you mean. I'm just saying I like the phrase cold sandwich. I can see you being the kind of guy that brings a sandwich on a plane, which is really depressing, but I can see you doing it. That's not depressing, bro. It's less depressing than eating airplane food. If it's homemade, it's depressing. But you know I put my fucking foot into that sandwich, bro.

With my travel size Maldon, I mustn't season at home. It has to kind of be fresh so the crystals pop in your mouth. You wouldn't get it. I've said too much. All right, let's give Beej a jingle. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is this is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you.

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BJ Novak, live and direct from New York City. He's wearing the hot chick headphones. Nothing I'd love to see more. What's up, guys? No, I've been looking forward to this. Here we are. Okay, so are we the final stop on this never-ending press tour? Honestly, I've been looking forward to it. This is my finale. Now I get to have some actual fun. You know I'm a fan. You know I'm a listener. You know I've heard my name. Well, we know that, but I don't know if all of our listeners are fully aware. Sure. Yes, you could go on. I mean, we don't want to stop you. Do you kind of do a Q20 on our journey together? Sure. Well, look, I think we're both in each other's sweet spots, maybe for slightly different reasons, but you're definitely what I'd like to listen to. I touched on being Eskimo brothers. Oh, this I didn't know. Who's our person? Who's our person? It's not confirmed. It's just a feeling that a fella gets, you know? Okay. Just you're doing numbers and you're like, it must have happened. We're in the same world. He pulled up the spreadsheet. He did a screen share with the spreadsheet today and we were kind of narrowing it down. Oh, my publicist sent my kill list? That's amazing. Yeah, it's like a money ball thing that I'll do on a whiteboard. That should not have happened. Yeah. No, I definitely know the persona of mine that you portray on the show. So I'm riffing on that. What should we do for real? Look, here's our docket today is Shintaro. What else? Okay. John Mayer. Okay, sure. Our dinner together. Nomi Fry. We had an epic, epic group with the two of you, Nomi, Kiernan. I believe it was actually John Mayer, BJ Novak, Kiernan, and Friends. Yeah, on Doom Wah listed us as Friends, which I was a little upset by. Which I'm more than happy to take. I like to think they weren't wrong. I like to think they weren't wrong. That's sweet of you. That's a better way to look at it. Okay, so I like that you're the first guest that's ever come with a docket. Yeah.

So first and foremost, you hit me up maybe a couple weeks ago. We got to talk about Shintaro, which is a sushi restaurant in Los Angeles that I've been going to for what seems like a couple decades now, it feels like. They're recently open on Sundays now. I know, yeah. Shintaro update. Whoa, that's huge. It's huge. They're open on Sundays, and they've also already done away with their shitty COVID parking lot seating out of respect for the guests, which is nice. It doesn't look as ugly from the street now. Oh, wow. I have not been there in a while. I did not know about the Sunday. Monday is still closed, though, right? I think we're seven days. I think we're seven days. I think we're touching seven now, BJ. I don't know. All right. Well, that's cool. Look, here's the thing about Shintara. I've been going there for years. I love the discovery of it, right? Like, that's the sushi spot you're looking for, the sort of good quality but neighborhood. It's not like a Katsuya Nozawa. It's not like a fancy, but it's not like sugar fish, like off the rack. It's like your spot. Not off the rack. No, like it's a bespoke. It's a bespoke. Yeah, very bespoke. But affordable. It's like a Subaru. What's a clothing brand that you would align it with, Chris? Maybe like an APC or something. Reliable, not flashy, but relatively affordable compared to some other options. You know what I mean? Yeah, super good. So anyway, my Shintaro journey or confusion or gaslighting is that I was seeing someone. No. And on her way out the door, she said, and by the way, Shintaro sucks. That was like her parting words. And I was like, fuck you. No, it doesn't. You nasty bitch. I ordered it the next day, and it sucked. And I was like, wait. First of all, you ordered it? Who orders it? We only go in for the ambiance. Oh, no, I get delivery all the time. It's great. I live right by there. You're just up the hill, right? I'm just up the hill, and it's like. it's yeah it's it's a really quick it's they're always there fast and and um anyway and it did suck and i was like oh no but then i heard you guys talking about it and i admire your guy i don't know what you said about me in the intro by the way but um i like you i don't know i i'm a fan and i was like okay well they have great taste so um i'm thinking okay shantara was cool she was wrong but um but now i'm all turned around well okay well i have a few questions

I want to know why this person got in your head so much. That's the real issue. How hot was she? Because she must have had to have been extremely hot for you to have your world shaken by this. Right. To shake Shintaro takes a lot of cred. Yeah, I mean, of course. I've never been with someone I didn't find attractive and respectable. So, yeah, I did take it seriously. But here's the thing. Of all the places to go, of all the shots to take, It must have been top of mind the whole time. Had you been there? That's what scared me. But had you been there recently with her? No, no. That's why it was so weird. It's like Eisenhower's final address was about the military-industrial complex. So, like, this was hers. And I was like, that is a weird choice. Like, you wouldn't just make that up. Of all the cards to pull, the Shintaro card. I mean, normally you got a little dick. whatever, you know, talk shit on things like that are really going to sting, but... Well, it's got to be something that you could, something you could pass off as buyer, you know, so... No, of course, you're right. I guess she had to read, Jason, guys. Well, a good part about Shintaro, it is a local neighborhood spot, but it's also kind of dark and secluded, and you can kind of do a little... first or second date feeling it out oh yeah not ready for a debut absolutely at a town at a sunset tower or a chateau where you could be spotted but you can kind of hide in the corner over there and you're probably like i know this great little spot it's so yeah you got the kurosawa movie playing if the conversation lags absolutely the sound is the sound is off but you can focus on the visuals the thing is that jason likes to point out about shantara that seems rare and exclusive is that they do have a full bar. Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the deal. I wasn't going to bring that up because I think they're going to get in trouble because here's my theory. I don't think they have a license for a full bar. But this is exactly why I fell in love with Shintaro. This is the part I wasn't saying, is that almost no sushi place in L.A. has a full bar. And I love like a vodka with sushi. I love vodka. Yeah, I just want something bracing, you know, between bites.

And in New York, it's no issue. Every sushi place has a full bar. But in L.A., for whatever reason, it's beer and wine only. So you have to get shoju from the rocks to kind of mimic it if you want anything. But Shintaro will always serve you, but it's not on the menu, and it's behind the takeout window. And they got, like, one of everything. You want a scotch? It's J&B. You know, like, there's one option. And I think – There's one shelf. There's one shelf. I think it's house party style. Okay. You know? I think she's like, uh-huh, yeah, give me a sec. And I was like, I don't want to rat them out. I don't know if the ABV listens to your show. Look, our reach is growing at a rate that that could be true. But I can't leave out these important facts about this restaurant. If anyone from the alcohol beverage, whatever, is listening. ABV, that's alcohol by volume. What did I mean to say? AOC, right? That's the wine thing. We don't talk about AOC on this podcast. No, that's not our kind of podcast. But look, if anyone's listening from that, just be cool. It's all good, man. Just be cool. Safe space, yeah. Because we went there for a birthday recently with a large group, and Jason proceeded to get twisted off a mixture of, of course, the delicacies of the shoju and as well as some sake. But you also mix that with a traditional vodka drink, didn't you, Jason? My girl makes a terrible martini over there. So, BJ, you've been doing these pods. First, I did want to talk to you about your movie and the screener. It was sent to us, but I was unable to view it on my television. Dude, everyone told me that, too. Okay, that makes me feel better. At least it means everyone was trying to watch it. Ana Navarro at The View today had a similar problem, so you're in a great company. I unfortunately didn't even attempt to watch it because I would prefer to go to the theater, pay my $20 and see it with my fellow comrades. But guys, I mean, you live it. You live it. I play a podcaster. I play your vision of me as a podcaster. I was listening to an interview with you earlier today and you said you described being a podcaster as pathetic.

I just wanted you to... No, no, I did not. I did not. I did not. No, you're like, I'm a podcaster in the movie. Well, aspiring podcaster, even more pathetic, was, I believe, the quote. I know you don't think that we're pathetic, but I just want you to expand. I don't. I think you're a cool dude. I pursued a friendship with you. Obviously, I think you're cool. No, I meant to say the aspiring... because it's an easy job to have. That's right, it is. All you need is anchor. It's no problem at all. Oh, man. Give it a try. No, I think that the... Well, I was saying this in the intro and we said this when we had dinner, but it's a little crazy that you made a movie like this and we aren't included in some way. I mean, it's not like Ira Glass is in it. Terry Gross is in it. Okay, well, that's pretty good. I did not know you guys then. I didn't know you guys then. And in fact, we do have a shot of like two... podcasters in isa ray's studio that would have been you but i put our actual producers in there just like with headphones and stuff so i'll just say they're playing you that's all good this could have been big for us i just want to say that to you now i don't think you need it but um but i i would have loved the association i really we're looking for a hollywood shaman and you've taken the job unbeknownst to you well what are you looking to do oh i mean all kinds of stuff i'll be i'll be an agent i'll say what are you looking to do and then just ignore all of it do none of it okay for Well, I see myself as, uh-huh, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just some Pixar-based voiceover work for several millions of dollars every year. How much voiceover work have you done, BJ, or is that not your bag? I'm terrible at it. I've auditioned for things, and I froze up. And once, actually, I was on This American Life reading a story I'd written, and Ira Glass, like, gave me an hour's worth of notes, and his last thing, he just, like, okay. Like, that was it. He never said I got it. So I think I'm bad at it. I think I freeze up or something. I was in the Smurfs 2. Smurfs and Smurfs 2. They had me back. Then I did not. But no, I think voiceover, and I do think I have a very, I think I have it in me, but I guess it's a weakness of my character. Clearly. Clearly you're on How Long Gone.

Yeah, exactly. This is basically a voiceover show. One would think that voiceover acting would be easier than on-screen acting where you have to lose your body and physical appearance as well. Right. You have nothing to hide behind. Neither of which I've gotten many compliments for. So you'd think that it would be narrowed down in the voice thing, but no. They're like, I saw you on that show. You were on it. Yeah, exactly. Ira Glass is like, I saw The Office. Okay. Uh-huh. I mean, so you had a story and it was like act two. He kept saying, no, no, no, don't narrate it. Just say it like you're talking to me. So I did, I thought, but he was probably right. I probably was doing like a narration voice. Just do this really unnatural thing, supernatural and normal. I mean, it's the most common thing when you roll the camera on someone. You're like, oh, he'd be perfect, like a friend of yours. And when you know this, when you're conscious of it, you're completely different. So maybe I'm that way with voiceover. I think that the money's too good. Yeah, I think the money's too good to leave it on the table. We just need to get a coach maybe. We're going to work on that. The money is not that good. I know people who do it. The money is good if you're like on Bob's Burgers season 14 and they need you. What about the Mercedes-Benz ad? That has to be hitting pretty good. But dude, I mean, if you're Mercedes-Benz, what Jon Hamm adds to your vibe. Isn't it Jon Hamm? Yeah, I think he's done it for a long time. I mean, but it has to be Jon Hamm. Yeah. That's like a voice on a long-running show. It has to be a real pussy-wedding voice. I mean, your word's not mine, but yeah, exactly. I just find that it feels like the same way that celebrities are coming to take our podcasting money, some of your little cohorts. And then also, I think voiceover should be left to people that are ugly. I think that must be my problem, guys. Too hot for pods. But no, you guys, I mean, I met you in person. You're tall. You're in great shape. I think you're easy on the eyes. You definitely are your own target in that. Thank you, BJ. So you're saying we might have a future? I mean, at least on YouTube.

You could broadcast these at least. Yeah, I've heard that YouTube is kind of a great place for creators to get their start and kind of get their voice out. Soon enough, in all honesty, it will be the end point because this next generation, it's Netflix or YouTube. Do you know what I mean? YouTube, people sleep on YouTube. YouTube is where everyone watches everything and there is not like a, it's cheap stigma to people who grew up with it. And it's just simple. It loads so fast. But do you, I, I, people say this to me all the time and I just have never used it like that and never find myself using it like that. But like, Jason, do you, do you, BJ, I mean, do you actually watch stuff? Oh, it's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I don't. To me, it just, I mean, but I think I'm too old to like feel natural. I mean, obviously I'll click on something if someone sends me something on YouTube, but no, I think it's for younger, like 13 year olds, 18 year olds. Yeah. I watched BJ on Colbert last night while I was brushing the teeth this morning in the bathroom. On YouTube? Yeah, on YouTube. Yeah, yeah. You'll catch a clip from something on YouTube deliberately. But there are people who just sit down and turn on YouTube. And that, I think, is going to be very big in the future. Yeah, we have a friend who's our age who does that. And he's like, did you see this? I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? He's like, oh, my algorithm kind of hit. I'm like, are you just surfing YouTube like it's cable television? Yeah, it's like long-form TikTok. Great point. I'm going to stay off of it. They want us on there, you know what I mean? These worthless agents, but it doesn't feel right. So BJ, on the film Vengeance, the podcaster that you play, did you have a podcaster in mind in real life who you're basing it off of, or was it just basing it off of yourself, but now you're a podcaster? No, yeah, I think I look and sound enough like a podcaster that I was just like, oh yeah, people... I'd obviously be this guy. Quite plausible. Yeah, I felt like, why aren't I a podcaster? I'm definitely that energy. So he's trying to do something that's kind of like Serial, but I think he would like to be more of like, I don't know, who's like, I guess it's Dax or Marc Maron, but like the Charlie Rose of podcasters is probably what he would like to do. If Serial fucked. Sure, sure.

Sarah Koenig had some BDE. Did you guys shoot in beautiful West Texas? We didn't do much. We shot some exteriors there, and we did a lot of the prep there. But because of the tax break, we had to do it in New Mexico, which actually shares the same topography. There's this valley that it straddles that we shot in in Artesia. So it was basically Pecos, Texas, but it was technically in New Mexico. I've spent a lot of time in Pecos. You have? No one's been to Pecos. I've been to Marfa a handful of times with people who know the area. It was 2012. It was a different time. I was being paid. I would like to add. I don't go to Texas. Even though I love it, I only go for money. I have been to Marfa five times. For the Marfa Film Festival or to find yourself? To find myself. To be myself. No, look, Marfa is just beautiful. There's no arguing with it. It speaks my language. Of course it's a cliche, but it's great. It's absolutely gorgeous. The art is really cool. Is it really that gorgeous? I've never been. Yeah, it's really that gorgeous. Like the sunrise, sunset, the shit they say about L.A., it's like that, but... better well you know the term magic hour which is sort of that final hour of sunset that looks incredible in film of course magic hour there is from like 4 to 9 p.m Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it has this golden glow. Damn, I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah, no, it's incredible. Chris, so you were in Pecos just checking out the dollar stores and stuff? Yeah, but why would you go to Pecos? Like, even people in Pecos are surprised when people come to Pecos. Just a quick drive-through. Did a dealer live there or something? What is the backstory? No, but this was one of my faithful trips was we got stopped by the border control. which is a little more serious than the police. Oh, yeah. But this is a story, Jason, where I had the... This is when I had the weed strips. They were like Listerine strips, and I stuck them to dollar bills in a wad of cash, and the dogs didn't smell them. So I was high as hell, BJ. So this is another phase of your life. I've been through a lot of those. I'm sure you can relate as we get up there in years. You kind of start to look back, and there's some things you've done that are, I wouldn't say regretful, but interesting to look back on. No, but you are sober. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are sober, right?

So, yeah, I mean, different face. Yeah, but the border control is the scariest part of that trip, for sure. Yeah, they don't play around over there, brother. Yeah, no, it's an intense place. And someone told me about this expression from a long time ago. There's no law west of the Rio Grande, and there's no God west of the Pecos. Wow, that's very cool. That is a cool, cool expression about your town. That is very cool. L.A. doesn't have that. L.A. does not have that. No. We have no God here. No. We're west of Pecos. L.A. is cool. L.A. is cool, but people don't know. So you said that you're up the hill, so you're kind of like outposty area by the bull? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure. Where are you on the scale of being worried about doxing yourself? You mean saying my address? Yeah, because you kind of have a little come and find me spirit to it, whereas some celebrities are like, can we cut that? I do not live in, like, don't even tell me, don't even say the state I live in, you know? I'm at that level where I'm right in the line between saying that as a joke and, like, should I say it? Yeah. Like, I almost said it as a joke, and I was like, well, I don't know. The only people I'm scared of, to be honest, are the Funko people. So you know about the Funko collectors? Yeah. Okay. We're scared of them as well. Well, so the Funko people – so basically there's a lot of – there's a huge industry for autographs, I guess, on like eBay and stuff. So when people – Which still baffles me. Yeah, totally. So when people come up to people like me and they want me to sign, generally they have like a cast photo of – The Office or something else I've been in, and they're trying to get every signature and they're going to sell it. But then another thing they do is they have blank, glossy paper, which somehow they superimpose on whoever they happen to get as a photograph. So these are the opposite. Wow, I didn't know that. These are the opposite of fans, obviously, but they're coasting on the goodwill of someone puts something in front of you and you're flattered and you sign it. But then the Funko collectors, I guess, are nuts, like Comic-Con levels. So there's Funko dolls everywhere, and these are the most aggressive people I've ever seen.

seen, and they would DM me all the time in my junkie DM folder, and then they tried to get in touch with me through other people I knew, and one of them was like, I think there's two rival guys, and one was like, I will give you a briefcase with $10,000 if you come to this hotel and sign Funko Dolls for like two hours. No! Yeah, it was such bad vibes, and then they sent a plea to my house. my home address. I don't know how they got it. What do you mean? Like a handwritten letter? Like, what are we talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a handwritten letter. Like, please, I'm collecting these Funko dolls and I just really want your signature so much on them. Okay, so that means did they make like office Funko dolls and then you... Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, yes. I'm assuming so. I just wanted to make sure this is... These are BJ Novak Funko dolls. Well, or Ryan. Funko dolls. As soon as we finish this podcast, you know what I'm going to buy, Jason. Oh, baby. I'm getting a BJ Novak Funko for the house. I want to know how much is the Ryan Funko with and without an autograph? How much does the BJ Novak signature increase the price of the Ryan Funko pop? Do you know? I assume... that it's only valuable if it's part of a complete office set. But if it's not, I don't think it's worth anything. I'm realistic about myself. It's all good. I just happen to be a member of the team. So then whenever I see these people, they're all over New York, all over New York. Now they come up to you in your car as you drive away, like block after block when you're in traffic. No way. It's like very dangerous, sketchy vibes. These are not fans. but they're clearly not fans. It's clearly a huge industry. These are just hustlers. So you feel like Princess Diana. I won't do Funko. That's like my policy. That's like you're no anal. They kind of accept it. No Funko. No Funko? Got it, got it, got it. They kind of got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget. Oh, but my point is like maybe if everyone else gives in and I'm the last holdout, I'm like the Joe Manchin of the Senate here.

Like, I control everything. You're going to be kidnapped. Yeah, I did. First of all, because the Funko store on Hollywood Boulevard is something that is – there's a line 24 hours a day no matter what's going on. And the thing I noticed most about it is the just absolute – insane spread of people that are willing to wait in line. It's a melting pot of diversity. It's truly a melting pot of diversity, much like Anthony Bourdain in Houston. So you're saying the one good thing about America is the Funko doll. It brings everyone together except for you, apparently. Well, now I feel really bad, yeah. No, but it's been co-opted like everything else great about America, right? It's co-opted. by these cut dirt scalpers. No, I mean, that's why I can't go see Bruce Springsteen. I don't have $5,000, BJ. What am I supposed to do? Yeah, you do. I'm not going to sell one of my Funkos. I'm not going to sell my BJ Novak Funkos. This show is getting pretty popular. I think you can do that. So outside of, because my apartment in New York is near the Bowery. So I walk by the Bowery like almost every day. there's almost always the autographed guys outside. That's who I'm talking about. I'm there right now. That's the crew. Okay, that's the crew. And have you ever had a situation where maybe you're strolling out, you're feeling yourself, you see all these people, and then, oh, you didn't realize Jennifer Lawrence is behind you? Oh, it's 100% because Jennifer Lawrence is there or Harry Styles or whatever. Like, they would never pursue me. But if they're already there, They will grab me. Absolutely. So that's where I am. They're not pitching a tent out front because BJ Novak just checked in at room 713. No, but I'm like the loose change that is on the sidewalk. Like they rob a guy and then there's like, he goes, ah, and stuff falls out of his pocket. I'm the stuff that falls out of the pocket. But my question is, but if this is happening, this is the time where they wouldn't have a picture of you. This would be a blank piece of paper because they're not prepared. You know, I was at LAX, I think because Focus Features is releasing Vengeance, booked it. And I think that list gets out. So they have a mole. No, but hold on. This is all interesting to me. I imagine to you and your listeners, but you know your audience. Cut me off whenever you want.

But another thing that happens, and this happened on The Office too, so if they book travel through a studio, there is a mole, there is a plant at those places who sell the list of the travel they book to people. So if I book my own travel, there's nobody there. But if a studio books the travel at both airports, the one I leave and the one I arrive at, people are there with my stuff, my photos. If they already know to be there, I mean, they're probably going to LAX for like 10 different people. over the course of a few hours, but they do have my stuff, yeah. So the mole is the travel agent at Focus Features is selling the manifest and with the times and flight numbers so they can catch you on the way in. They got one at every studio. Every studio. It's probably a low-wage job and all those guys, like, the first thing you do when you get that job is someone's like, dude, you know how you really make the cashier. And I don't think they need to root it out. It's not, like, dangerous. so far i love the underbelly you should you should just fly private just to be yeah why don't you fly in private are you good i'm sure he is uh to my five thousand dollar bruce springsteen concert i gotta make decisions in life you're not you're not old enough to fly with your buddies to the bruce springsteen concert on the pj that's 60 plus that's real boomer hours oh god god that's the sad thing is the more the more money you get the older you are that's why guys like drive the lambos in their 20s not that that's my style but i think they're doing it right people think they're blowing their money early no you want to put that in a 401k and then when you're 60 drive around in a lamborghini it's pathetic like you should good point you should spend that you should spend that money young it's pathetic to see someone drive the lambo while your dick still works that's what i said no that's true yeah the lambo hits different with viagra that's like bluffing and poker when you got a full house Like, that's like driving in a Lambo when it's working. Yeah. What if some things that you have blown money on, BJ? Because I know those checks were hitting when you were a young man. So what did you kind of splash out on? Don't say something responsible. Don't say a house. Not even a house. I rented a two-bedroom in Miracle Mile the whole run of the office. So, no, I don't do that enough. That's why I'm like, people should do that. It's because it's something I wish I did. Rented the two-bedroom in Miracle Mile. And that was back when Miracle Mile wasn't that great.

Is it great now? It's gotten a little better. It's the hottest spot. Miracle Mile is like the Midtown East or Murray Hill of L.A. No, it is the Murray Hill of L.A. That's really good. In the last couple of years, it's come a long way, though. How? What? That terrible museum? There's a Sprouts now and some other stuff that Jason likes. You know what's the ugliest building in the entire world? Maybe. That car museum? The Peterson Automotive Museum. It's, I think, the ugliest building in the world. It feels unsafe to drive. next to like i feel like a part of it's gonna fall off and hit my hit my car that feels like some insider trading on that thing getting built that feels like some some glad handing behind the scenes okay so bj you've never you've never done some irresponsible spending on something where you're like i really regret that that was stupid but it doesn't matter because i have a lot of money i've sometimes i bought some art that was pretty didn't appreciate it was pretty cool or wild i was like oh this will appreciate and now like nobody's gonna want this and that so that that has definitely sort of mistaken purchases would be that but um you remember any of those artists names no even i don't know the names that's those are mistakes well i mean luckily because of your friendship with mayor you always have like a watch counselor so you haven't fucked up bad enough there because that's an easy thing to blow 100k on and feel like an idiot well i mean again i wish i had because um because those watches have gone up like 10x that's true You know, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, that book? Yes, yes. Like, the rich dad, you know, I've been poor dad too much in my life. It's not smart. I want you to, I'm feeling bad for you, which I didn't expect on this podcast. Well, that's sad. I shouldn't, because you're more successful than me, and you went to an Ivy League college, but somehow I'm feeling you need to spend more on yourself, BJ. We want you to feel the rain on your skin. Yeah. No, dude, look, look, a lot is going well. I just, like, yeah.

I mean, the Bowery, it's a great hotel. BJ, I love the Bowery, and I know you're not paying for this. I'm talking about something that you're paying for. You know what I mean? I need you to get the Maserati truck. No, dude, I'm not, like, you know, I don't know. I'm not, like, petty, frugal or anything. But, like, yeah, I don't know. No, you're not. It's hard to be, I don't, you guys have swag. Like, that's, like, I want, I like that. I like that. BJ likes swag? Ashton Kutcher has swag. Like, I like being, Mayer does. I like being around these people. But I have this suburban side to me that's like will never quite be that. I appreciate you being honest about yourself and what you're comfortable with. I think that's smart. I mean, I wouldn't drive a yellow Corvette either. So I'm glad that we have that in common. I'm kind of moving from swag into suburbia, though. So we're sort of like. intersecting dna bros wait what's going on in your life i mean i i used to just like live in hollywood and party out every night and turn up and do all this swaggy shit and now i live in like a a peaceful quiet neighborhood in glendale and like oh that's cool the car and shit but i feel like everyone who lives in glendale does it in quotation marks they're like right yeah like how suburban is it's like cosplay for the suburbs Everyone there is like, we're not really living in the suburbs. Well, it's the best of both worlds because if you grew up in the suburbs in Iowa or Orange County or Massachusetts or wherever, and you come to L.A. and you're like, I love it. It's exciting. It's an urban landscape that's so fun. But I sort of yearn for my suburban traditional roots and home. It's like, okay, we put the suburbs 10 minutes away. So you really do get the best of both worlds. It's not stolen valor or false suburban honor. Whoa, I didn't expect you to be so eloquent. I was just trying to riff. I never suspect it, BJ, and sometimes he surprises me. It's a good friendship. These are the things I think about, guys. What is your relationship with Boston? I love Boston. I feel like it's Boston. Everyone loves to hate on it, but I think it's really pretty. I think the style is terrible.

And I'm not a stylish guy, as I said, in particular, but I can tell the difference. It's because I'm from Boston. You walk down Newbury Street or by the park, and it's like everyone is in basketball shorts, in the most beautiful, expensive, chic neighborhoods. Everyone's in basketball shorts and khakis. It's weird to look around. I have a theory. Well, I was asking my brother about his theory. What's your theory? Well, my theory is it's just all students. for the most part, look like shit. Yeah, but the difference is like New York has art school students and stuff, you know, and a good influence. Boston is like science students. Good point, good point. And then it's so expensive that those people say no one goes to Boston because it's more affordable and they can get their start there. So like even like Detroit is going to have much better style or something because like that will happen. So that's, I think that's a very good theory. But, and Boston's like, it's a science town, it's a medical town, it's an academic town. A racist town. That's what everyone says, but I wouldn't know that, to be fair. Do you know what I mean? So I don't know that world, and I do respect that I don't know that. Do you think there's any through lines between the West Texas kind of red state vibe and the blue collar Massachusetts vibe? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, someone said to me that it's not, what they took from the movie that is so true is that it's actually not red state, blue state. It's country mouse, city mouse. which is a much cuter way to look at the national divide, and I think it's completely true. I don't know why we had to attach an adorable animal to that, but I like it. Well, it should make us feel better about the issues, because in Texas, which is so red, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Marfa, these towns are all blue, and the state is like 48% blue. But you picture this big red state, and then in Massachusetts, if you drive right side of Boston, it's Trump signs. You know, any rural place in California, too. Thank God. Thank God for Worcester. Thank God. Sure. Sure. So you drive in any direction in any in California, too. So it's really city mouse, country mouse. And I feel like that is a classic children's. We're all mice at the end of the day. If I were like Paul Krugman or something like I would. That's what I would title my book and be like, we can all how America's divide, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I would love to read that. Doesn't that feel like a neoliberal?

Treatise, Country Mouse, City Mouse. Since you have a little experience in children's book writing, you know, Country Mouse, City Mouse. A little. How many books have you written? One, but it was, you know. It was a big motherfucker. It was a pretty funny one. Yeah, it was a very good one. No, yes, one. Exactly one. Yeah, I could write Country Mouse, City Mouse and, yeah, really be about how we all need to understand each other. Only if you want to bring our nation back together again, you should write that book. But otherwise, don't bother. It's not your responsibility, but it feels like you could maybe make a dent. You're the man for the job. Talking about the vengeance of red state, that power of wanting to seek vengeance is a little bit of like a country mouse thing, more so than a city mouse thing? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think with a gun, for sure. sort of, um, you know, classic vengeance, which involves a gun, et cetera. And even the word vengeance, like people out here, um, where I am like, obviously at the Bowery, they don't talk about, I want vengeance, but they do like there's everyone wants to crush their enemy, their rival. They want more money. They want to see other people fail. I mean, that is, that is all around. And that is vengeance. Of course, you know, I was wronged and now I'm, you know, et cetera. So I think it's just not with a gun, but it's extremely universal. It's just in a different label. Do you think, I guess, in terms of speaking about vengeance with a gun, do you think we all sort of, like, why we gravitate towards vengeance films and books and stories, you have to have a reason to kill. Like, do you think we all kind of have that animal vengeance fire kill inside of us? And we need vengeance to sort of justify that killing? The movies and stuff? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everything that is... in movies has got to be because we feel it or well i'm i guess i'm talking about let i'm less talking about fictional films and do you think like that that's inside of all of us like human beings like that million million year dna oh yeah yeah of course that wants to kill and the current version of us needs a reason i yeah i bet some people are more in touch with that side than others as with all sides i think i'm less in touch with that side actually than other people but

But maybe it's just buried deeply. I got that dog in me. I got that dog in me. I want to kill a motherfucker. Lucky I can't get a gun in California. You're lucky. Not you personally. I just mean in general. Chris, you do have that vengeance dog inside of you. Which I think, I mean, it's healthy to have a little bit of that, but at a certain point. Well, I think BJ said it bad. I just want to crush all the competition and take their money. Right. And I think that's healthy. But did the competition do something to you? Yes, they entered my sphere and thought they could eat a bite of my fucking blueberry pie. And unfortunately, we ain't selling slices today. You know what I'm saying? I like that you stuck to the blueberry pie metaphor. I didn't think you were going to follow through on that. But, you know, in the Michael Jordan doc, like when he invented that someone slighted him. Yes, yes, that's me. That's me, exactly. I'm like, oh, yeah, these guys started a podcast? Well, that feels like it's competitive towards me and Jason, and we need to make sure that they don't get a single penny from Nissan. Oh, yeah. It's like, oh, you think you're better than me? Oh, you think you can enter this? It's like they weren't thinking that at all. They liked you. They wanted to be like you. We're all friends. We're all friends. Well, I mean, are you going to be – now, are you getting the returns this weekend? Are you checking the numbers? Are you reading deadline and variety? It's like a limited release. It's not going for the Secret Life of Pets or Marvel audience. So I think for what it is, it's doing very well. But when I was growing up, they'd publish the box office numbers and it would be a thing. Now, I think a couple years later, has everybody kind of seen it and talked about it? To me, that's the ultimate. And I feel like that is more what I hoped for than the number was this, not that. With deals like this, if it's going to get theatrical release, which at this point I feel like that's a decision people make, honestly, but is the idea like, all right, it's going to run for this long in these kind of theaters, and then have you already sold the rights to streaming, or does that come after the theatrical run? No, they...

Do everything. I mean, it's such a... It's all at once. Well, Universal is the studio. So they test the movie. They decide, are we going to release it in theaters? How many theaters? Sure. And then generally, you rent it on iTunes or Amazon for a few weeks after that. And then it goes to Peacock, in this case, because it's Universal. Oh, Peacock. One of my favorites. The old cock. Yeah. You and the cock have a long-standing relationship, so I'm glad that you could kind of... All right, that's enough. That's enough. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm going to go... Is it playing at the Americana? Do you know that, BJ? That would be a dream. I love that place. Do you follow that meme account? Yes, I do. Americana brand memes. It's so good. A lot of gold in there. Well, where am I going to go see it in L.A. this weekend? Because I have to go see it in the theater now. He doesn't know. Yeah, because your link didn't work. I'm sorry. No, no, but I'm happy to support. I think the Alamo Draft House downtown is playing it. That's a good theater. BJ, what else you got? Oh, BJ, we're not going downtown. Give us a better option. You got the Grove? You got the Grove? You know, I don't know. The Arclight was like my go-to. Everything is scattered to me now. Maybe there's somebody who's connected to the film that you can ask where it's playing at. You want to just hold on for a bit and stall while I go on Fandango? No, I'm looking it up. I love Fandango. I think that's great. Thank you for calling them out. I'm not a big movie guy, so if I'm going to be forced to go to the theater, I love the ease of Fandango at my fingertips. And it's at the Americana. No way. Oh, it is. Yeah, Caruso's there right now. checking it out. He watches every movie, you know, to make sure the projection's right. Yeah, Caruso's a big cinephile. That's the thing about it. He's like Walt Disney. That's why he does it. That's why he does it. And that's why all three of us voted for him, right, BJ? Mm-hmm, all three. Oh, shit. I need to know what Nomi thinks of this. I don't know what to make of it.

What do you mean? Don't worry. I edit everything, BJ, and it'll come out great. What do you think about editing a podcast? I think you do not edit a podcast. I don't believe you. I think they come right out. Yeah, Jason will edit this for four hours as soon as we finish. Oh, but you released them so quickly after the conversation. That's right, BJ, because we're not these lazy Hollywood layabouts. You know what I mean? We have to work. Whoa, dude, you're a fire. No one's taking your blueberry pie. We're blue-collar podcasters. Nobody's booking our flights. You know what I mean? It's kind of like if we don't do it, nobody's going to do it. Yeah, yeah, country mouse. It sucks. I mean, you know better than I do, and maybe I don't know the finished product, but. Honestly, I listen to a few podcasts, and you know yours is one of them, and I just like the voices. I don't really need highlights. You know what I mean? I just want to feel like people are around, that like, oh, I like that vibe around. It's just a frequency while you're doing the dishes that puts you at ease. Yeah, so to me, if you or other people put on, I don't know, just threw up two hours or whatever, it's fine. I just leave it on. I like it. It's just when there's all those ads, that's when it's. so annoying yeah i agree but unfortunately we try to keep the ads in one little chunk no look i better help is saving lives i get it it's just really is it really is and if you listen to it if you use our code how long uh you can receive a discount well aware okay i just want to make sure i didn't i just wanted to make sure i'm sure you can afford real therapy but better helps a good option if maybe your therapist is out of town because a lot of people go on holiday during august you probably i'm sure bj has had a therapist For a good amount of time? Have you stuck with one for a long time, or do you bounce around? Yeah, I'm clearly so healthy. Is that why you say it? It's like, man, you're great. It's like if I said to you guys, you must have a trainer. You're like, you must have a therapist. You are very psychological. It could go another way. It's like, oh, you really need help, so I had to get a trainer. Look, I get it. I look Jewish. I look Jewish. There's that. There's that, sure. There's that. Yeah, no, I do have a therapist. I am in therapy. It's been very helpful.

I believe in it to a point, but I feel like we've gotten – I'm a little sick of the burnout culture. Everybody being like, I can't answer texts because I'm just burnt out. I can't – like the idea of calling a workplace and telling them you're burnt out, you can't work, and they have to allow that and pay you seems insane to me. That's insane. Yes, I know what you mean. But also if there's a big problem, which there is. I don't know where it gives if you don't do that. I don't know where it gives because you should not be in a job where you are burnt out to the point that your mental health is at risk. And you shouldn't be hiring an employee who would be that way. But in this society where everyone is squeezing everything to the margins for profit as much as you possibly can, I don't know. Something needs to be protected. So yeah, I think it's bullshit too. in isolation but in this world like it might be really important i just think it's a boy who cried wolf situation i think some people it's very real i think some people are taking advantage of the current landscape oh yeah absolutely or when people say like hospitalized for exhaustion i'm always like how do i know if i have that like what does that mean and also how do i know if i have i have that like what is that chris knows what that means how did people like look at someone and be like oh she's exhausted Get her to a hospital. My favorite is Lyme's disease. And look, it's a euphemism for something really bad. I just don't know why. Yeah, it's called drug overdose is what it's called. I'm sure there's that, but there's also like, dude, you're acting. I don't know. It's a nice euphemism for something bad. And then in the old days, like nervous breakdown. He had a nervous breakdown. What did it look like? I do not understand. I believe we call that now. a panic attack, which I feel like manic episode. Manic episode also works. It just depends on how your publicist wants to spin it. You know what I mean? It depends on how many blackberries you threw at someone's head. How many blackberries? That's funny. You're specifically picturing 2011.

You know when people say they're set in their ways? He's set in 2011. That was the best time in America's history. Music, culture. Okay, give me a time capsule of 2011. On the spot. What's going on? 2011 and culture i i honestly don't i mean my culture oxycontin and marijuana was probably what was going on in my 2011 we didn't have all these non-binary mumbo jumbo but it's so hard to remember it is such a blur since 2001 so like honestly if you had to set a film in 2011 and someone said all right just give me a sense what kind of music what are people wearing what are people watching what's the vibe Can you rattle that off in 2011 or not at all? Clothing-wise, yes. Clothing-wise, yes. What? It was like menswear 2.0. Everybody's wearing hard-bottom shoes and raw jeans and collared shirts, for sure. Okay. In New York. Okay, great answer. That is for sure. What's on the radio? That's a good question. I feel like it's like Rihanna. Kings of Leon. No, Kings of Leon's before that, I think. I think Kings of Leon's before that. I feel like it's a little more Rihanna-like. Beyonce, like that kind of... Rihanna featuring Calvin Harris? Yes, exactly, Jason. Your favorite song of all time. I think that feels 2011. Who is on the cover? I could be wrong. You walk through an airport, who is on the magazine covers? Clooney, always. Okay, you're good at this. I would not... Clooney, you can say Clooney any decade, he's on a magazine cover. But that's the thing, the any decade thing, that's where I think we're in an any decade century, sadly. I don't know when the 20s kicks in. You know, when people are like, oh, that's so 20. It's like, I thought the first two decades, it's like, well, this is a big pile of mush. I wish someone would name these decades, but at least the 20s will have a clear identity. And so far, I don't know if they will. I mean, there's a lot of bleak, scattered stuff. Well, do you think, what is your peak? Like, obviously, your career is going quite well, and you've had some different phases that have all been pretty successful. What are your peak years so far?

To a fault, it's got to be 2009 or something. 2009, you were really feeling yourself. That's when his nuts were hanging the lowest to the Earth's surface. If they still made history books, and there was a chapter on pop culture, and you're just paging through it, and my picture is in there somewhere, you'd be like, oh shit, what is that, 2009? Like, so far, so far. I mean, I'm working on new things, but to realistically summarize where I am in that book, it's like, oh, shit, BJ Novak. Sure, sure, sure. What is that, like 2009? Yeah, yeah, I know him. Okay, that's a good way to look at it. That's a good way to look at it. I think that I'm having a renaissance right now, actually. I think I've peaked and valleyed, and now I'm coming close to another peak again with... help from my friend Jason. But I feel like we can have two or three of those. And unfortunately, society has beat us into thinking that if you don't have like a hit single by the time you're 20, your life is over. Right. I mean, a lot of the legends, when you look back in the history book, like as a writer, like Mark Twain, like he hit it in his mid 40s. You know what I mean? Like, and you don't think of it like now he's like an iconic old man or Larry David, you know, like these are people that like. in the distant future, no one cares if it was when you're young. It's just, like, when you're good. So I think there's that. But also, like, I always noticed as a kid, like, Marlon Brando, as a movie fan, like, he had 1950s Marlon Brando was, like, the biggest thing in acting and film ever. And then it was, like, you know, then he was the former Marlon Brando in the 60s. And then it's, like, the godfather Marlon Brando, Apocalypse Now. So I do feel that, like, Yeah, people definitely have phases, but the phases have those valleys in between, and then you do something else. So I'm definitely at 2009 at the moment, but you don't know when my fat godfather phase is coming. The bottle of BJ's is in the wine cellar. Yeah. Open it up in 2027. Yeah, who knows? Now, are we going to make more movies, or is this thing a pain in the ass and you're all set? No, I definitely want to make – I mean, making a movie is such a hard thing to get them to let you do.

And to learn how to do. Because you bullshitted your way into this a little bit, right? For sure. How do you not? And then to be able to, yeah, if you're able to do it, I mean, I think. You've got to keep doing it, and I want to. Yeah, once you've got your foot in the door, you've got to go all the way in. I say this all the time on this show, though. I think making a movie seems like about the hardest art form because it requires so much money and so many people to do it on any sort of scale that it seems insurmountable to me. It's extremely hard for that reason, and the hardest part that you kind of don't know before you go in is that that combination of people and money means that everyone is trying to whisper in your ear, to you got it, move on, wrap it up. This is great. I think we're done with this. This is amazing. So you're being kind of complimented in a gaslighting way by everybody whose only goal is to not get yelled at for going overtime and spending more money. So that combination, it's very hard to focus and sort of be hard on yourself when there are people praising you falsely for their own. sinister reasons. And honestly, that is, it's a hard thing to navigate because you also need a lot of outside opinions. Sure. You need to know, am I, because you're too close to it constantly, but all the people around you have all these other motives. And by the way, I worked with great people. I think they were also in their own. Yeah. It's just the nature of the beast. It's just the nature of it. Yeah. Did you show who saw this first that wasn't involved? Great question. I don't remember. I did show it to people. I just remember it was the first. No, no, of course I know. I meant like, If there's somebody, you know, people have, like, a first reader, you know what I mean? No, I do generally when I write a script, but for the cut, I don't remember. Zip it over to Mindy, see what she thinks, something like that. Mindy's sort of the last person I should do because I'm so nervous. It's weird. She tells me it sucks, like, no matter what, so I don't really know what to do. She's very opinionated and very smart. But I don't necessarily agree with her opinions, too, but I admire them, so it's a real headphone.

I don't – yeah, I think the taking – the level of criticism you have to take – because the reviews, I mean, I've seen them. They're pretty positive, like, so far from what I've seen. Oh, yeah. You're certified fresh on the tomato meter. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're certified fresh. Yeah. But, I mean, I do think that, like, after spending this amount of time and money on something and then showing it to someone and then being like, yeah, I mean, you know, okay, you made a movie. I feel like that could be – have you learned to take those body shots? Or does it still hurt? Dude, I feel like my whole career is learning to take body shots. Definitely my whole public, yeah. No, it's definitely a constant, it's definitely a constant thing. It's a constant pounding. Learning that, but you know, then if you, I have noticed if you look at the people that you admire, if you were to like read a message board about anyone that you're a fan of, there's so much negative stuff that you filter out. Like I love Nathan Fielder. right and then i just noticed like oh now nathan fielder is you know being like he's gotten big enough to where he's getting negative press or negative opinions exactly but like it doesn't stick like in a million years i wouldn't run into nathan fielder be like bro having a tough week you know it just it would go right off me he's fucking nathan fielder anyone who doesn't like him is irrelevant but when it's you um of course you think that that is the universal consensus it's never no matter who you are it's not the complete consensus but you know all of us we notice the negative and no one else is even really thinking about as much at all and if you don't like someone but they make a movie like great and vice versa you know my point is if you look at anyone you admire you're gonna see that stuff and so you just need it just means you're everyone is not for everyone that's another thing i've learned which is that you know dave chappelle is not for everyone at all You can be sort of the greatest at your field. You're not for everyone. And I think there used to be in the George Clooney 2011 world, George Clooney was for everyone. And if George Clooney wasn't for somebody, there was something troubled about that guy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What happened to you? Yeah, and now nothing is for everyone. So I do think that is different. And I think I grew up in a time where I aspired to be like, I'm going to be for everyone. I'm going to be like those people.

I'm definitely not, but nobody is too. No, that's good advice. That's good advice. Great advice. And hopefully you take some of that, Chris. Yeah, I'm doing my best, but that's why I don't have a gun, like I said earlier. Where are you both right now? I feel like I can never keep tabs on which city you're in. We're in L.A. You're both in L.A. I'm in Glendale right now, baby. You both own or rent permanent places in L.A. and not New York. Correct. But Chris has an apartment in New York as well. God. I have an apartment in East Village, yeah. I'm actually, we're going back tomorrow. Chris is off to Europe for a holiday vacation and a wedding, and I'm going out there in like a week and a half or so. We'll be podcasting in Toscana. That's amazing. Oh, how was Mexico City, TJ? That was like six months ago, right? It was about six months ago. Yeah. I had a good time. I had a good time there, too. We had a great deal. We went with David Cho. It's the worst city in North America. He texted me like a week ago saying like, hey, man, thanks for hanging out and inviting me to Mexico City. I had a really fun time. And I was like, really? Okay. Okay. Good for you. Yeah. That's the thing that we think about and talk a lot about on this show is Chris and I sort of have a shared bond in being unable to enjoy ourselves fully on vacation. Where do you sit on that scale? I think I'm trying to figure it out too. I also think I realize about myself that I'm going to do the same thing no matter where I am. If I'm at Lake Como, it's going to be a prettier gym, but I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to send those emails, but the Wi-Fi is just going to be a little bit worse. It's going to cost me $10,000. I travel alone a lot because I'm often not with somebody. I'm like, oh, I'll just write there. And like, that'll be a nice place to write. And that will be my sort of, um, my way of not feeling like lonely or pointless being in another place. But then, um, then I don't really, I'm never on vacation either. Cause I'm like, all right, time to really write. So that sounds like a vacation to me though, being alone and just writing in a hotel room and smoking cigarettes out the window. It's not, it's not bad, but it's also like writing is stressful too. So you're like, fuck, I can't crack it. Like I suck. And then, you know, you're in Paris.

That's not really a vacation. I told this anecdote on the show, but I listened to this podcast with Sofia Coppola where she was talking about her dad would go to Vegas to write. Is that what he said? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daddy has to go ride again. It was because he could go there for a week and it was like you could get whatever you want 24 hours a day so you could just kind of sequester yourself and do your thing. So a turkey club, a prostitute, boom, we get the godfather. I have written in Vegas actually because the weekday rates. are insanely cheap. It's like $39 to win on a Monday. And it's really inspiring in terms of it's like literally tumbleweeds through Las Vegas Boulevard. You know, it was cool. You zip over from Burbank, $79 flight. Oh, only Burbank on Southwest, yeah. BJ's not taking Southwest. You know he's a JSX guy. Wait, no, I've never... JetSuite? No, this is... What's JSX? I don't get the point of those... semi-private things at all. The point is you pay $800 to sit next to eight people instead of 100. And the eight people are all sort of rich instead of not rich. I don't mind air travel. I don't. And I do fly Southwest, and it's like an extra $29 to be guaranteed boarding group A. But then they have the disabled and military. I had it in my movie, and then I cut it because it was such a long setup, but my character had A1 Southwest, and then they boarded this disabled convention, and he ends up in a middle seat, but that's how I feel. There was a disabled convention going to Memphis, and I got nothing. That's really funny. That's really funny. When you shot that, did you shoot it and you cut it, or did you cut it from the script and never shot it? I cut it from the script. You have to be so judicious about, like, you know, something like that. It's a whole location. It's, like, 40 extras. It's 40 wheelchairs. And, like, when you're running long, when the movie's long, it's the first thing everyone's, like, cut that. That's pointless. The one that is probably going to get cut for 50,000 reasons. Yeah, the other thing.

In your mind's eye, really quick, in your mind's eye, what was the disability this person had exactly? It was a lot of people. It was like 40 people in 40 wheelchairs. It was like a convention. It's like, yeah, they're all going to Memphis. The whole flight is disabled. Not the whole flight, but there was some convention of the disabled in Memphis or something. And there were a lot of people switching in West Texas. That's the Memphis I know. The other thing that was covered time is just two minutes of screen time that I couldn't do. You know when you call a hotel and you have one question? Like, can I get a bucket of ice or something? Or like, how late is the bar open? And you call down and it's like, Holiday Inn Express, West Memphis. We are here to serve you 24 hours a day of one of our seven locations. My name is Sandra Jean. How may I assist you? And you're like, I just want to interrupt them. And then you call back and they do the same thing again. So I had my character. I thought it was really a funny observation. But that would have been cheap to film, but that's screen time. There's no movie that anyone's ever like, I wish it were longer. You always want to try to get it to 90 minutes. Everyone always wants to cut little things like that. So I did get to keep some in the movie because I think I live for those things. But you just have to really choose them carefully. Those are those little bits that stick with certain people forever. Yeah, and they are the things that when people come up to me, they're like, I loved that. For sure. In terms of revenge, Chris, I always think of the person who told me to cut it. I'm like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I like that line, too. I like that line, too. Yeah, yeah. Quickly, before we wrap up here, I just wanted to get your kind of appetizer order at the bungalows because I've kind of honed in on what mine is. I just want to compare and contrast. Okay, first of all, bungalows. The move at the bungalows is to eat dinner. San Vicente bungalows for our listeners at home. The move is to eat dinner first. Yes. The move is to eat dinner first. That's why I said appetizers. Yeah. Oh, and then you snack on an appetizer. Absolutely. That's on account of the food being inedible, right? Yeah, you get the grilled avocado, right? I've had that once, but the buffalo cauliflower is the best thing there. Grilled avocado, huh? A guy like you is eating the buffalo cauliflower?

It feels off, doesn't it? That is not a healthy order. Well, it's the best thing on the menu, and it's because I have it at Erewhon and I like it. It blows my mind how much better it is when it's fresh. Erewhon, look at this guy. And then what about the zucchini chips or the chocolate chip cookie? The chocolate chip cookie is also the best thing there. So you're really indulging when you go to bungalows. That's your cheat day. I mean, you can't eat like – I mean, I get a piece of salmon to eat, but it's like what am I going to do? Like you can't eat like – It's not what it is. Salmon is both my favorite food and the biggest bummer at a restaurant. Because it's zero fun? It's zero fun. It's so obvious. You're not out. You should be ordering like you're a Chuck E. Cheese. Salmon is a lunch food, not a dinner food, I say. That is a good call. Okay, Jason, says the guy. Who eats lunch, first of all? I mean, that's crazy. If one were to eat lunch, a fresh salad and salmon al fresco would be wonderful. Back in 2011 when I ate lunch. My call is I think if we got rid of entrees, the world would be a better place. I agree. Appetizers to dessert, that is a winner. If I ever have a wedding, that's how I would do it. You drink coffee, both of you, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your coffee spot? I mean, it depends on... Don't say heroin. No, no, no, no. No one can afford that. I go to... I mean, the best in LA is probably Maru, but it's kind of far now. Oh, I learned about that from you, I think, or the person who told me about this podcast. You like it. Jason, you like Maru, don't you? Yeah, Maru's great. They have my favorite ice matcha latte in town, if that's your bag, BJ. But isn't the line forever? And I don't live in Los Feliz. I don't – like I have to go over there today, so I'll do it. People complain about the line. I go at like 2 o'clock and it's fine. I think if you go at 9 a.m. like a person without a job, no offense, then it will be kind of backed up. And Colin Farrell is there in his truck. You know what I mean? It's a scene. That's cool. But no, I mean coffee, coffee is good. Sightglass is good. Wait, I don't know these places. Are these Los Feliz?

No, Coffee Coffee is on Fairfax. We're both in Hollywood. Yeah, Coffee Coffee is on Fairfax. No way. And Sightglass is across from Gigi's on Willoughby. I don't know either of those. I love Go Get Them Tiger. What's your take? Yeah, I like the product. I hate ordering like I'm at a bar. Okay, sure. But the lines aren't terribly long. Are you an investor, BJ? No. No, I don't think so. I can't wait until I have to think and not forget if I invested in something. Yeah, what are you invested in if you can't remember? Oh, I'm in a group that invests in things. So the group invests in things. Okay. Well, first, yeah, that's great and all, but let's talk about your investment portfolio just before we wrap up here. What are we looking at? Uber? Anything? Raya? What else do we invest in? No, no, no. I'm not in either of those. Raya. Please. I have all the things that went way up and then went way down. I think I'm just in the general stock market, but I'm in a group of people that invest in things. and so everyone kind of is like yes or no on this and then the group puts in money so i think they did on go get them tiger i hope they did i love it i think they did but i'm not that's why i'm not sure it's not like i I'm so out of touch about my own money. Is it business people or actors? It's like a combo of people. Good, because I wanted to make sure it wasn't actor-led. You know what I mean? Because you guys aren't kind of known for your business. It's just some general Hollywood power players. Yeah, exactly. Hopefully there's an agent or two in there, because I don't want to leave it up to you guys. Well, the agents can really lead you astray with investments, actually. They're always pitching some liquor company that I'm like, I don't think so. Oh, another vodka? I'm good. I'm out on this one. Yeah, who's behind this one? Nas? Like, I don't know. Nas is heavily invested in many things. But for every Nas alcohol, there's a fucking, you know, Casamigos or whatever. There's a Ciroc. There's a Ciroc. No, no, I agree. I'm into that. But I haven't been pitched anything I missed out on. That's good. That's a good feeling. But I don't believe in that very much. I think that there's enough up and down if you're in this business.

I feel like every day is kind of like the phone rings and you're like, what's going to happen? Every day is the stock market when you're in Hollywood. Yeah. My dad watches the stocks every day and his mood is affected. I remember growing up and I was like, I don't want that. Your life is a stock already. Yeah. And your mood is affected by it. Dash them jeans. Dash them jeans. You should put that. You should do Instagram quote cards. It'd be really sweet. We've thought about that. He could be the male rupee cower. Yeah, he's well on his way. All right, BJ Novak. I love talking to you guys. Vengeance is in theaters now. Run. Don't walk to the AMC at the Americana so Nicole Kidman can tell you about how good it's going to be to see a film with your broskies in person. This is a real film for the broskies. All you loser podcasters, go see what your life could be like. I'm Taylor Swift, 45 on my hip, and I'll lift up a switch up hip-hop with Rift app, if no downloads, cause I am not gifted, I sift into the shit on Twitter, I wanna quit it, but I spit it on the beautiful Lou, and tell the kiddie to love his baby, you are beautiful too, blonde hair is blazing with the youth and the crew, and if