849. - Richard Ashcroft

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? What up? What up? Chris Black. I'm back in the United States of America. I'm in New York City. It's been a couple hours. so far so good unbelievable it's truly unbelievable um them jeans how are you doing today i'm good i'm good just in the middle balls deep right in the middle of a three-peat pod recording week because we have some travel coming up but what a what a great diverse musical week that we're in i'm feeling great thank you um well i'm working out i'm gonna do some just thank you to everyone who who uh got in touch with me to let me know they were they were really impressed with our sort of wherewithal um when our last guest when our last guest uh gave us absolutely nothing um and i i said usually usually when someone gives us absolutely nothing i don't like it but this time for some reason i loved it and i i think it was actually so fun i don't know what got into me but cas wasn't really given as much but i think he had a good time too Is that your feeling? I think he had a good time. I think it's one of those situations where, to him, that was like doing, you know, Kill Tony level of fun. But then the way that it's projected out onto, you know, the audience, one could easily confuse that for lack of interest or desire to be there. But I think he's just a...

He said he's a self-proclaimed grumpy guy, just sort of across the board, day-to-day basis, in a Larry David kind of curmudgeon way. But he also is sometimes a man of few words, but he's a giggler. He's just a weird guy. Yeah, no, it's true. He gave us more than he had to, considering what I was expecting. um you know based on yeah reputation but whatever it was fun not every uh not every battle is easy but we got the fish in the boat and that's what counts that is what counts jason you've always got your eye on the prize yeah i um we put out we put out the tj's blend today with pure beauty you can go buy that anywhere uh you live on the on the worldwide web yeah you can buy it on their website and i'm pretty positive that it's dtc like legally ship it to you you know wherever you are in america so have at it y'all enjoy it like like i said in the description it's something you can have a little bit before you work out before you hike little pilates Do some squatting. You can also hit it before bed. Go night-night time. It's all there. Night-night. I usually don't like weeds that have hybrids or combos or blends that have CBD in it because what's the point? You know what I mean? You're taking up valuable real estate in the joint with marijuana that could get you high. You know what I mean? Dude, I get it, bro. Trust me. I get it. is like an award-winning one that has a one-to-one ratio so it still has award-winning all right can you share yeah please share me please show me the the governing body that gave the cbd an award um i mean at the very least yeah i know you've heard of the cannabis cup right chris of course no that's true that's true i've had an issue of high times in my life that's not out of the question i'm not saying they won cannabis cup I'm just saying that is an award governing board. Okay. But I'm going to say probably. I know that they've won awards for sure. It's really good. No, I'm joking. And our good friend Sam Jane designed all the packaging. Revolutionary. What a guy. And then this weekend. What a guy. This weekend we're going to be in Austin, Texas. Levitation Festival. And then Friday. You're hearing this today in Austin if you are there.

Doing a little ticket giveaway for the club with DJ Python and me. So you can send an email to howlongatresoundpresents.com. The word resound and the word presents. And then first 10 people to send an email get on the guest list for free plus one. Send in your emails. Come out to the club, me and Python. It's going to be fun. I can't wait to be there. I'm going to stay up until midnight at least. Good. You'll be able to see some of us. Yeah, I'll be able to see 30 minutes of you. I was joking about... I was talking to somebody about DJing and how I hear about these guys and where they play and what time they play. It's literally like they live on a different planet than the one that I live on. It's like I can't even imagine that being my... sort of day in and day out life, but I'm happy that it exists, of course. I think it's very cool. I mean, and some of them are in their 50s. Well, that's because they don't have a choice. They don't have a way out at that point. You know what I mean? Their body and mind is... Well, I mean, some of them are in their 50s, but also... You know, what are they going to do, quit making $20 million a year, storing the world in your private jet? I'm not saying that level. I would say a few rungs below that on the ladder. We're talking about the punter down at the pub playing his cheeky things. I'm saying a guy who makes a living, but they're not on a private jet by any means. It's still a better job than many jobs that are on offer. So you're talking about me. You got it. No, no, no. You have several income streams. You have several income streams. Yeah, DJing but one pedal on the flower of me. Dude, it feels so good to be back in America. I can never be in Germany for that long again. That is just not. You don't even care if they have free speech over there. You will still hang out in America, preferably. Who gives a shit? Yeah, I didn't really watch the Jimmy Kimmel cry fest 20-minute monologue where he sort of.

played both sides a little bit i guess which i i don't know what we would expect him to do in that instance but yeah i would play both sides in his ferragamos you play but we we know you play both sides uh but i i think no no no no i i i think upon further reflection i'm like if i'm him and i really care this much and i'm really this principled and i'm really this much of a bleeding heart You take the money from your contract and you're never to be heard from again on television. You've made hundreds of millions of dollars. You can still be a producer, an executive producer. You can still develop this and do that. I'm sure you have several production companies. You have plenty of money. If you're really that principal. Man show reboot. If you're really standing on business, you walk away. He's kind of doing the opposite of standing on business in some ways. I would say he's standing on business by not bending the knee. I guess he's bending both knees, but not in a fuck me in the ass kind of way. More of like an Asian squat. So it's sort of neutral still. I think that he, like I said on the last episode, there could be a scenario where he doesn't really have the option contractually or not to just up and leave. You know what I mean? I think not in a like we're going to break your legs kind of way. It's not in a casino style shakedown where they're going to hit him with a hammer. I disagree. I think they'd love to see him go away. Maybe so. I mean, maybe they want him to go away, but they can't operate without a Kimmel until they find a replacement and they just need more time. I don't know. I don't think they want this. Do you think that they asked him to cry? No, I think that motherfucker will cry over anything. I think it's like I think those I think him and Stephen Colbert can cry on demand like a great actor. And luckily, if there's any liberal cause, they're able to shed tears on on cue on camera. Do you think those were toxic tears? No, no, no. I think he again. Do you think those are like gaslighting tears? You know what I mean? No, no, no. I think he's generally I think he's genuinely a pussy and like a like a guy.

who would cry about something. I don't know. I just like, if somebody dies, I get it. You cry like stuff like that. Like you don't cry over, over stuff like this to me. Well, I think you do. You do cry over that stuff. And then you. turn 11 or 12 and then you become somewhat of a, you hit puberty and then you stop crying about that stuff. I just don't, I just don't. The whole thing is like, I'm so tired of hearing about it. It's like, I can't believe how quickly it took over the news cycle completely. I don't think we're done. I think it's going to continue in some, in some regard, at least on, you know, in our corners of the internet. I mean, if I was Kimmy, I was Kimmy, if I was Kimmy Jimmel, I would. He probably got straight-up death threats. He was probably shook at home. Yeah, but he gets death threats all the time. He's been getting death threats for 20 years. No, all these guys. Yeah, but the death threat SEO was huge in the last week, though. You know what I mean? I don't think that. I think that he really – I think the sad part to me is that he really believes this shit. Like he really – this shit is real to him. And he's trying to be he's trying to sort of deny that he's a multimillionaire celebrity that is known globally by face and sort of pretending to be this little guy that's getting picked on by the president. The president is an idiot and they are picking on him, but he's not some like cowering. You know what I mean? He's not he's not like a he's not the underdog. to me it's it's like when joe rogan will be like i'm just a little little comedian what are you talking you know yeah that kind of thing yeah yeah it's like dude well you do you have more influence than yeah you know 99.999 11. that's that's what i'm that's that's kind of what i mean that's kind of what i mean well i was just i was i was just presenting that possibility because his tears were almost giving like you know i fear for my life style like please sir

humiliation ritual kind of energy i don't believe any i don't believe it i don't believe anything and i think everybody's doing whatever they can to further their career and their reputation in this instance because a guy like jimmy kimmel and even i mean guys like that like it's it's not this isn't like a bad quality it's just a reality like want to be liked that's what that job is you're sort of like you know america's fun uncle that's your entire existence So if you lose that and everybody hates you, I think it also sends you into a sort of tailspin of like, who am I? You know, what is this? What have I been doing for the last 20 years? You know, it's it's hey, these are tough times to navigate. If you're the type of person who when you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one. I think guys like that also who are like, you know, going to Cabo for two weeks with Jennifer Aniston in a private plane. Like, I don't just I just don't like. He's been doing this too long to have any illusions of anything else. This is what he does. This is all he's ever done. I don't know. If I was a late night person going through this, Jimmy Kimmel would be the first person I would call because he would know exactly how to handle it. He should be handling this. Yeah, a little better. Anyway, we have a guest today. He penned the national anthem of... the united kingdom uh richard ashcroft is a singer and songwriter we love the verve we love his solo music has a new album coming out uh it's called loving you on virgin october 3rd the final oasis shows which he's been opening at wembley are this weekend if you're in london anyway we're really we're really pleased to talk to him um and you know we're going to ask him about his skincare and hair care routines just to kind of get the real dirt that you guys are looking for This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do all our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded.

Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince.

Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash how long. All right, Richard, what's going on? How are you? Yeah, I'm very well, thank you. Yeah, yourselves, guys, you good? Lovely. Yeah, we're good. I was just complaining about I just got back from Berlin a couple hours ago, so I'm feeling rough and ready, if you will. Yeah, yeah. I get it, yeah. I've been traveling a bit the last few weeks, months. Yeah, I get that feeling, man. Your whole life, you mean? Yeah. Where are you guys? Where are you flown to? I'm back in New York, so it's nice to be home. I can't, but it's still warm here. It's feeling summer-ish. And Berlin was not feeling summer. So I'm having a little bit of a whiplash situation. New York, you can have some beautiful Septembers. I've been in New York in September. It's a great month for New York, isn't it? You could have the best two weeks of your life if God intervenes. Did you ever live in New York or no? No, I know. I had a lot of people, not just musicians, but yeah, I did.

harbour a dream to um to uh move there at some point but no i've stayed there for you know a while you know a few weeks and things like that and i i love that i love that place i mean obviously all anyone says is oh it's changed it's changed oh it's not the same and blah blah blah but every time i go i've not been for a few years now the end i just as soon as i got on the street the energy i used to change so originally we'd stay at the uh the chelsea hotel and um sure And it was still kind of, I think the guy running it was like the son of the original owners, you know? He was asking questions like, how come you guys haven't plugged the amps in the room yet? So the first night we arrived there, so my first night in New York was crazy in a sense that we checked into the Chelsea and I was in this room called the Snail Suite and everything was shaped like a snail. It was strange. And I looked out over there. I looked out the window and then I could see the iconic sign and then like a little marijuana leaf just drifted past my window from above. And yeah, we had a flatbed truck waiting for us outside the Chelsea. And that night we went on the back of a flatbed truck and we just drove around New York, went through the meat markets to Times Square. and we were just jamming on this flatbed truck what was this was this promotional or was this just yeah fun it was kind of like promotional was this brought to you by sprite yeah it was brought to us by some substance of god knows what it was but uh um it was i think there was a show that night as potentially even a show later on or something it was just such a crazy introduction to new york and like yeah that's where it started off and then i started staying a bit more sort of um so and then then over the years i got more into just staying close to the park on the park really because that's where it still feels like an intersection of the whole world around there you know what i mean take a football down the park and walk down to strawberry fields have a look at the dakota and i that i love that

and that old money sort of area around there it's like i think that the yeah they've redone the chelsea and it's popping again it's like a full scene in a in a good way they did a good job with it so it's uh it's i mean usually stuff like that just kind of goes away you know what i mean because it just can't sustain itself but someone you know swooped in and saved it well that's good hopefully they preserved the snail shapes i want to know more about yeah when you said everything was in the shape of a snail yeah i mean i want how detailed was it was the bed slippery yeah you know kind of like a shell over it so you could have like yeah i mean it was crazy i mean the whole heating system and everything was archaic and i remember looking out of the because it was quite high up looking across That was the first time I saw all the sort of water coolers. And back then, you know, I'm not sure whether the infrastructure of America has really been dealt with anyway since then, but it was quite hard. Imagine being brought up on big fridges, cookies and milk, happy days. You know, you guys had, you guys were showering in the fifties. It took us until about 1989 to get a shower in England, you know, but it was in support. It was surprising to see how old a lot of the underbelly really was. You see that from the rooftops. You see that in the electrics and the plugs in the Chelsea and the heat and no air conditioning or anything like that. But it was a real insight into... It was like the matches still had JFK on. It was just strange. It was like a strange... At the time, even though it was the early 90s and you think, well, surely it was... so much different by then but actually there was still a hint of the 70s you know what i mean or god knows when a lot of this infrastructure was put in but what was interesting is my last foray into i don't know if you guys have ever had a drink in the bar in the mandarin oriental on columbus circle you must have a drink in that actually no i have i know what you're talking about but no i haven't well this thing it's got a huge plate glass window and it's kind of on parallel with when the

the architecture and the skyscrapers stop and the um park starts you get this amazing sense of of just this like tidal wave of buildings just stopping and then trees and whatnot and i um i love this view and one night i decided you know what i'm just sitting in this chair on my own and i'm gonna stay here all night i'm gonna wait until dawn and We did have been in this other hotel. I won't name it. It wasn't very cool. We got into this one, and it was all like, oh, yeah, it was incredible. It was like Fantasy Island or something, and I'm sat there drinking, having a couple of drinks on my own, looking out the view, and one of the guys started hoovering for the next day, and the concierge came over and said, oh, Mr. Ashcroft, would you like me to tell him to stop? And I'm like, no, no, it's cool. He's got to do his job. Get on with it. And then it was like, shall we turn the music down? No, it's fine. Everything's cool, just cool. So I just sat there and watched the dawn break on New York, and that was amazing. So, yeah, I've seen some of the roughest gaffes, not necessarily some of the worst places. I've stayed in some great hotels. The last great hotel I stayed in was a pretty funny story, actually, because I think they gave what was Liam Gallagher's room to me by accident because he recommended this hotel because he'd stayed there before. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. So he said, you've got to stay in this hotel in Central Park. It's amazing. It's old school. And I was like, okay, yeah. And I was doing a gig with him in Central Park. I saw that gig, actually, at Summer Stage. I remember it was pouring rain. That's right, yeah, yeah. So two days before I check into this hotel, I don't think Liam's arrived at this point, and the guy said, oh, Mr. Ashcroft, he said, I'm pleased to inform you we've been giving you an upgrade. And I'm like, great, fantastic. You know, not really expecting anything. Anyway, I end up in this room and the corridor that is part of the apartment, really, it wasn't really a room. It was an apartment. It was huge, was bigger than most people's flats, you know, in New York. Most people's apartments, just the corridor. And I found out it was one of the most expensive pieces of real estate.

ever to be sold the last and it had a triple aspect view over the zoo in central park and it had the craziest steam room you've ever seen the maddest bathroom blah blah blah anyway so because we haven't really uh met up on we've done a few shows we haven't really met up and i you know socialized really at all we haven't had time and he was like he said are you do you want to come up to us because i've got a balcony and i was like mate I'm not going up anywhere. There's nowhere left to go in this hotel for me. I'm on the top floor. I don't know. I think your trainers are still under the bed here. He was like, what? Yeah. And to be fair, he added a very, very nice room with a huge balcony, and that was very nice. But yeah, New York, man, I know we've gone off on that, but it's always worth it because... you know i've recorded in new york i recorded in studios that they are now chunking and i've had some great nights great nights and great concerts and you know good memories really it's funny you brought up the dakota because i over the holidays my friend had a christmas party there and i was really upset i wasn't able to go because i've never been in an apartment there and it's something i feel like you gotta you gotta see if you've especially if you've lived here long enough yeah i think what people underestimate is just the enormousness of some of those things you know what i mean i think yoko and john they bought yeah one you know ones that were parallel to them and etc etc well i think there's those kind of i remember i think it's the odd couple or something like that that the 70s the odd couple if i was going to live in new york i was always wanting to live in one of those huge apartments you know same same i'm still i'm kind of working up to that you know i have some time i hope you know yeah but in reality for most of us we end up being willie lowman in death of a salesman don't we in a tiny apartment because yeah it's pretty expensive new york and it only got more and more as time went on and you know places even when i first went there that were kind of totally undeveloped just suddenly it seemed within the space of five ten years it was like

These properties were multimillion dollars, you know, and they were like no man's land only. Well, yeah, there's nothing left. Nothing to develop. Yeah, when I first moved here, I just remember people being like, oh, I bought this, you know, in my studio at Williamsburg for $100,000. Now it's worth X million, you know. Wow. And it's like there's nowhere to go. And if it is, it's so far out. It's like you might as well be in New Jersey. like what like you don't want that like i don't want to wait 30 years for this to appreciate i want to live in the place where i like you know it's like it doesn't really it doesn't make sense to me but it's yeah there's not much and i'm sure i mean i'm sure that's true about london too even though london's got the crazy sprawl like i don't you know how far can you go you know before it's like well i'm just living somewhere else at a certain point exactly yeah it happens everywhere now there's not enough space left for the artist because generally the the cliche is and it's normally true you know and our young artists find places in a place no one else wants to be they build a buzz they build a community then a few coffee shops open and then yeah oh yeah it's over it's like hoxton hoxton over here you know hoxton was like that's where i did the video of a bit of sweet symphony around there and even back then 96 7 it was like it wasn't really happening at that point but it was as an artist hub because the space for studios and etc was cheap but um then it just it becomes this thing and then it's gone but um same with brooklyn you know what i mean you live do you live you live in the countryside now right or do you live in london too yeah i'm a i'm a cliched rock and roller i've i've got the pad in town and um and some acres in the countryside you know i mean i think every every successful british person we know that is what you do right why not it's the best of both worlds if you can get it yeah absolutely how which which house of yours the country or the city is closer to the river cafe the river cafe in london yeah yeah yeah yeah well this one is very close okay well i was just i was just in london and it was the the tube strike and it really fucked up my

48 hours. Yeah, I was just saying that, you know, I think a couple of big Wembley shows had to get rescheduled with that strike. Dude, it was like... pretty impossible like i i was like oh how bad can it be and i was like oh it's really fucking bad it's like really really annoying and even if you have a car traffic is obviously you know quadrupled at that point so it's like it's gonna take forever to get anywhere right that was it was it was brutal we were at we went to the wembley show one of one of yours um yeah it was the sunday show i forgot what day but the last two were this weekend yeah that's right yeah how do you how do you feel no i'm um I'm excited. It's been a crazy summer, really. The Manchester shows, I think we did five nights there, and the way the place was set up, it was like a park. It was like when people got there early. So you add up the amount of people. It's over a million and a half people over the summer just with those shows. It's been unique in a sense of everything's so damn fractured now. it's one of those rare opportunities where i've said before like there's a sense of leaving whatever your differences at the door and coming in for this like huge collective cathartic experience you know and you've got the older fans who've lost people along the way you've got their stories you've got the younger fans who never had the opportunity you've got this cross-generational thing that only say you really see with kind of like the stones and people like that and um the younger ones brought a a new energy and the band themselves oasis almost surpassed expectations so the whole thing is um it's it's just faultless really and um it's exhilarating i think you know it's it's interesting to to think of i've said before where both bands were in kind of what we call transit vans for transit van in in the uk is like your classic i'm not sure what you call it a corner line or whatever it is yeah yeah yeah yeah

your scooby-doo van you know and they supported us before their first album came out and their album took off in the uk and did well in the states and then obviously they released morning glory and we released urban hymns and and now all these years later you know that when the last note of bit symphony fades away it's half an hour before oasis and yet it's the same you know no wrote those songs i wrote my songs The odds of one of us having any song that was kind of a worldwide hit or an album that sold millions was rare, but to have two bands who were kind of mates in a way is extraordinary. It's almost like history repeating itself, because when I first bumped into them, we'd already done our first album, and I was trying to navigate being in a band where we did a lot of jamming, and I'd try and... arrange a bit which we try and arrange jams into songs and stuff and when i first met noel or i first heard live forever i thought you know i'm really going to concentrate on trying to gain some kind of control over this whole writing of songs thing i've got to like i'm going to learn a few more chords myself i'm going to get my get really into my acoustic and and that's when um i wrote this song called history and a song called on your own for an album called an old soul for the verve and um That was my stepping stone. But it was really through the influence of Live Forever, hearing that one song and meeting the guys, playing with them, touring with them. And I thought, yeah, because it was such an inspiration. And I think this summer is almost like going to be a catalyst for whatever goes on for me in the next few years where, you know, there's glass ceilings on everything. You know, when you start, no one believes you're going to do it. No one believes you're going to get a record deal. No one believes in it. Only yourself. And then you push through there and you push and you push. And then when you reach, say, God knows how old I am now, but I was born in 71. We did the maths. September 71. Whatever, around this period, there is a sort of general consensus that your best days have gone, you know, as far as songwriting. And I always look at people like Johnny Cash near the end of his career, end of his life. He was producing such amazingly, like, strong, authentic material. Van Morrison continues to push.

Neil Young and, you know, if a John Lennon would have lived, you know, and he was still around 80, whatever, I'm sure the last 10 years we'd still be discussing what John was up to, you know, because you want to know what a mind that you admire is feeling and expressing as they go on this journey. It's not about just... Of course, with some people, yeah, they hit a wall and they never seem to... managed to get past yeah yeah exactly i mean it isn't but it's not just a absolute fact and i think this is in this oasis tour for them and me and i'm sure has kind of like um smashed a few concepts that you get put on yourself about you the possibilities you know oh oasis whatever you're in america early all right then We'll do two stadiums in New Jersey and Chicago. We could have done a whole lot. They could have sold out stadiums all around America. No, for sure. Historically, music or a lot of things or a lot of artistic pursuits are considered sort of a young man's game in a sense that if it doesn't happen for you in your early 20s, it's not going to happen. And I think that that's maybe becoming... less true or we're giving people more of a license to sort of keep going you know and like allowing allowing for more if it's good if it's good yeah if it's good we're willing to listen you know you can play the cruise ship if it's less good yeah there's always a way to make money you know i think nowadays there's just there's a we have a real shortage of like just real rock and roll and you were you were mentioning how these shows are cathartic for these people And, you know, at first glance, you wouldn't think a lot of these songs have that cathartic feel. Typically, you know, the ballads and like the more emotional ones, but just the cathartic, the cathartic of just good rock and roll being played loud. Yeah. And also like it just doesn't doesn't happen that much anymore. Yeah. You don't get to hear guitars. I remember seeing.

I think it was the first time Waces played in an arena, and I went to see that, and they had an old Sam guy who was absolutely unbelievable. It's rare now to hear guitars in an arena or a stadium anyway, with the volume up to a point where all that guitar starts mushing together, and it's almost like, what is this, the Velvet Underground? What are all these mad harmonics going on? Which happens. bouncing off of all the walls and back again yeah it takes on another dimension and a lot of the uh younger audience they they probably you know maybe they've been to see say the foo fighters or whatever but there ain't that many bands really that uh you get to witness hearing just a guitar amp through a pa loud you know it's it's so that's what was so I think that was what was so interesting about that show to us. Cause I mean, I, I, you know, I try to go see a lot of things at the largest scale. Cause I think that's when it's sometimes the most interesting. And usually the bigger the scale, the more shit there is besides the music, you know what I mean? And this, I was stunned at the lack of extra shit on that stage. Like it is, it's literally, that could have been there. There's no light. There's no, you know what I mean? There's no like pomp and circumstance. It's literally like these songs are good enough. It's a little 12-inch amp with a mic set up going through the biggest sound system in the world. That's the thing. The crowd, the audience, the people decide what's an anthem as well. So there's a big difference between bands that write for stadiums when they are almost like, well, this section, they'll all sing this bit back. Or I bet you were disappointed that you couldn't jump on a peloton and charge the... Liam and Noel's electricity to get them home or whatever, you know. I'm not poking fun at one particular band, but it gets, this stuff gets ridiculous, you know what I mean? It kind of, but what was interesting is you kind of believe that, you're led to believe that, like, shit, if you ain't got all the bells and whistles and you haven't got this falling at this point and, you know, people with the...

bangles on and that's a great show don't get me wrong like I'm not saying the Coldplay show is a phenomenal show you know and people are getting quote unquote their money's worth but you almost think that oh shit is everyone going to have to like present their thing like with all this you know and when you witness that like you guys said you know Liam's got no catwalk. Liam stays in a very... I love the idea of him having a catwalk, though. Just the word. No, but you're right. He stands in front of the mic and sings the song. I know what you mean. He's not strutting out into the crowd. And this is what I mean. The majority of those songs, not majority, but half of them, they were playing on the first tour when they supported The Verb back in the day, and they were doing a similar thing. And it's the strength of songs that have grown it to a stadium. Do you know what I mean? It's not like Noel knew every single damn thing was going to, oh, this is stadium rock. It was a song that the audience was saying to the heart, and then they give back, which then creates this anthemic feeling. When I wrote a song, I didn't think... When I finished the song, the drugs don't work. I never thought that I'd be in a stadium and people would be singing a song like that along to me. In many ways, it's not an anthem. In many ways, it's not at all. But the people have made it that. You know what I'm saying? So it is refreshing that you can just stand there, present your tunes. And I think, like I say, the audience gives so much that they are like, it is a symbiotic thing that goes on there. And without them... Because they give so much. It's like you don't need a catwalk and big explosions and pyrotechnics because that's going off in the crowd. Do you know what I mean? I'm sure that's happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Jason getting hit with a cup of piss during the encore. That's the fireworks kind of crazy. I'm on my hands and knees looking for the bag. I've got enough danger and excitement going on. Exactly.

Talked about this a lot on the show after we saw it. But it's also, I think, that America just doesn't have anything that could bring people together in that way. On like a mass scale. Sports, like maybe the NFL is as close as we get. And I don't care about football, so I don't really consider that. But that's just America. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app.

using promo code HOWLONG. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code HOWLONG with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston. South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a three-night stay anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris? Yeah. Hilton Honors, baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad and Tulum? Hilton Honors, baby. What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. I think the thing is as well is we're a smaller country. we have a kind of national game for, we have our soccer. Well, that's our national game. And yeah, there's a different vibe with football and always has been. And I think it's a similar thing where like hip hop has this sort of thing with, without being cliche, but it has like a, it slips into basketball and the culture really, really well. do you know what i mean there's like a mutual respect among among the players and the fans and also an admiration and the club the whole the whole nine yards you know whereas in the early 90s or the late 80s in america you know you kind of had that thing of like if you were like into your guitar bands or you were alternative whatever you weren't a jock yeah completely separate

Whereas here we have that symbiotic thing going on again where the clothes, the culture, the vibe. Yeah, it's like intertwined. It's intertwined, whereas it's a bit more fragmented. And I think obviously we lived through a period where music became so genre-fied and separated. It was difficult for good stuff to penetrate different audiences because that audience was literally being peppered with what, the tastemakers or the programmers of the radio at the time believed that audience should be hearing you know we didn't have like you know even in the uk you know when i was like pretty younger i mean i think we took in the national radio station they he said to the radio plugger um the guy brought him a record of mine and he said you will never hear again ashcroft a gallagher song or a alburn's song on this Like, we're all set on this, bro. We've done it. We're good. Like, we're not playing this. Like how Disco Sucks happened in the 70s? Yeah, yeah, because I think it was anyone over 13. I take hip-hop as an example. You know, you've got great New York radio shows. They might have some hot kid come up who's 19, 20 years old. They'll play his record. But if they respect a dude in his 40s or early 50s, and he's just come up with something interesting, that'll be on next. Yeah, yeah. So the culture feeds... feeds itself from the youth, from the greats, and it becomes this one narrative, whereas, like, with our culture, in a sense of rock and roll, rock, alternative, there isn't the same, I wouldn't say respect, it's just there isn't that central place anymore where people go and hear these things from people of all ages, whatnot. There's not that kind of... Yeah, I mean, I think in the heyday, the only thing, I mean, it was... College radio would be like that a little bit, you know, but otherwise. Glastonbury, maybe. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, though, because there's so many iconic photos of all of you guys playing football. Who's actually good? Like, who can actually really play and who just looks good in the jersey? I'm not sure, actually. I mean, I stopped playing for a while, and then I went back into playing five-a-side.

about five ten years ago and i really enjoyed that and i realized i'm better i was better then than i was when i was young when i was young that's all i wanted to do is yeah you know when i was very young it was like i'm being footballer it's a cliche but there are those couple of routes into wherever you dreamland and it was generally football and if not music or music if not for whatever so I'd say I'm probably the best player out of any... You're like, I'm probably the best player of anyone, any musician. Any musician, any non-professional. I've got an advantage. Left-footed, you see. You're left-footed, you're tall, you're long and lean. You're a bit of a killer. Did you ever play over at Rod Stewart's house in Beverly Hills? No, no, no. That would have been nice to have played at Rod Stewart. I mean, Rod loves... rod has always obviously been a keen passionate footballer and and again actually think about it the faces when you see the old footage of the faces playing live that seems to have tapped into some of that stuff early doors you know what i mean where you know it's quite oasis like the vibe yeah yeah yeah but no no i haven't done that um i did play i played a great charity game um um at celtic it was literally 50 54 000 in there um i didn't play for that long but um it was it was um i got a little bit of time but you know there's a lot of people there so it's fine you know yeah i got a few heavy challenges in and blah blah blah but it was such a great experience because i'm a manchester united fan and i was representing manchester united in this game and um yeah it's incredible experience but looking back i have met a few athletes over the and Athletes, obviously, when they get into the tail end of their careers, they look at musicians and artists who can carry on, and there is such an absolute, they're like, it's all right for you. I've literally met rugby players who've said that, who are coming to the end of their career, and they're like, you can just carry on, man. I've been getting this adrenaline rush every week for like 15, 20 years, and then it just, bang, it's gone.

We lost a great boxer actually in the UK a couple of weeks ago, Ricky Hatton, and he died and he was troubled with that, with a lot of depression after his couple of, he had two defeats in America and literally 20,000, 30,000 fans came over to watch his fights in Vegas. And he felt what kicked his depression on was this feeling of letting people down. And yeah, I think those guys, they don't get enough. I don't know what it is, help or aftercare after their careers, because it must be so, it's like, it's like me doing these shows with the way she's played to one and a half million people and then just someone say, okay, sorry, mate, that's the half. We're done here. Well, maybe there's, you could do a thing where you and all the guys who are successful musicians still. You can adopt a Wayne Rooney, let him hang out with you for the weekend. Not a make-a-wish, but just give him a little taste. Great concept, mate. You want to write that one down, you keep that one. Copyright that one. In America, there's a lot, especially with the rise of sports documentaries on TV about how... athletes are just you start so young you make so much money there's it's only downhill from there basically like there's no like you're broke by the time you're 30 if you do it wrong and then you have all these injuries it's just it's not really you're right it's just not sustainable yeah yeah it's yeah i mean it is tough in the sense of i kind of thought that when um when i first ever the house i got in the countryside the the publishing company knew they were going to get a load of money. And so they kind of lent me and I bought it. And I just thought, you know, I'll try my best not to mug myself off. And the reason why I haven't lost everything is probably because I've been married for, you know, 30 years. You know, my wife used to have to lend me money for cigarettes type thing. And so we've seen it. We've seen it all. I was going to ask you, I was going to ask you about that. Being married for 30 years in your business is impressive. If you have any,

insight to impart on a couple of young bucks we would be very i'd love to hear i'd love to hear it i'd love to hear any tips that you might have yeah you just gotta find a cool chick man that's all it is yeah yeah that's the priority number one obviously you if you find find the right person you're lucky enough to find someone who will put up with you for that amount of time and you know grow with you um my thing was with my wife as well after a few years of being married um i was solo at that point and my wife was in a band prior to our marriage and so she was with me playing keyboards as well and we traveled together and when we had kids they came away and then I took a few years off um I think that's it really is is my game you have to make some difficult choices really of in a sense of I could probably be you know much more elevated and quote unquote successful as a musician if but would I be married you know would we be living together my kids are grown up but they're still here now they're downstairs as we speak you know they're doing their thing but we're still together you know and i think um that was through not just every now and again going all right folks i'm off for this month yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry about that and and we don't recognize each other when we get back things have gone down i don't relate to it that's generally the thing that happens in in in my industry i can't speak for others but it's really that whole thing of just being separate too much and and being getting a bit greedy with your yourself your ego your your nest your necessity to push your thing to its you know whereas with god's grace i can still do it now and now they're kind of grown up so i'll probably be doing stuff over the next five years six seven you know who knows that i would have been doing then you know because now it's not a case of with me and my wife want to go i want to go on tour i want to do this other than the dogs the kids can look after themselves you just got to find someone luckily we found someone to help with our dogs and whatnot so the responsibility isn't quite as intense yeah it's heavy yeah yeah yeah yeah so i think yeah again going back to which just i was lucky to meet

a truly fine woman and um and like i said we kind of made an effort not to drift into i'm just pissing off for six months you know what i mean yeah i mean that is part of the job to some extent but if you can figure out a way to sort of make it work yeah also your wife was in spiritualized yeah yeah that's right yeah so that's let's not bury the lead she was in a cooler band than you guys you know what i mean yeah yeah i mean that goes without saying she's always been cooler than me anyway do you know what i mean in a sense like which is the craziest thing to think of you being known as you know one of the cooler people alive yeah it's a funny word as well though isn't it i think it's like um it's more like a grace it's more like uh i'm the idiot who became the lead singer you know i'm the one with the i was the one doing the interviews i was the mouthpiece of the band i'm the one you know so there's a certain amount of what would you say um It's not necessarily a persona, but you do need to have some other element. Yeah, totally. You're going to do that and do it successfully. But if you've got that, then you're not as cool as the keyboard player. You know what I mean? Sure. You're not a cool person who sat quietly on the... You know, I learned a lot from her in that respect. You don't always have to be filling in the void. You know what I mean? You don't always have to be the loudest dude in the room, you know what I'm saying? That's the advice I need to hear, so thank you. That's close to home for me personally. Yeah, same here. Well, you guys do a podcast, you're always... voids are an anathema to you guys silence is not what you it's true that's true that's true yeah we could all bring it down a couple notches though you know oh always i wanted to talk about leather jackets a little bit too i feel like you're a connoisseur of the format and what is what do you look for what was what would you say is your number one leather jacket of all time you know if you had to choose one and do you still have it do you have an archive do you have a lot of the stuff from over the years well

I still got my one that I wore on Bittersweet Symphony, but I'm very surprised I wore it because I'm not necessarily a collar. It's got a collar on it. You want that. You want that collar. You want the motorcycle. I like it more like this, like the Sherman Maui type round. This one has on Bittersweet, and I look at it every time and I think, why did I wear that one? You know what I mean? I was happy with the... boot cut corduroy's happy with the uh and i made them put the wallabies on i said you want to start this whole video with my clark's wallabies yeah and they were like what are you talking about i'm like no just understand me just just do it yeah i mean front of the album i i was on holiday before we did the album shoot uh in majorca and there was these knockoff clark's wallabies called dingoes so i thought oh these are cool i'm gonna buy these dingoes And I wore the dingoes on the front of the album sleeve, and Clarks thought that they were Clarks. So Clarks were giving my family a credit. They were like, oh, whatever you want. And I didn't want to break it to them that they were dingoes, some ripoff. No, just let them go. Let them go. This one, this has been my summer purchase for the Oasis tour. This one's by Celine. Okay. And this one's real nice. And I got another one for these Wembley shows. I thought, you know. I went for a period of, I went a bit crazy when I did have the opportunity to start buying decent clothes. You know what I mean? You may have overspent a little bit. You went a little crazy? A little bit. And then recently, last 10 years, I've just, you know, it was a period where I wouldn't really look at what had gone on until I didn't want to know. Sure. I might have half glanced in the hotel room, you know, really? Bloody hell. But it was a period over the last 10 years where, There's a big department store called Selfridges. Of course, the greatest department store in the world. Yeah. The first time I was starting to really look at the labels on a cashmere cardigan, I'm thinking, hang on. I could buy a car with it. All right, so you're saying in the last 10 years, you started to look at price tags on clothing. I'm glad this grows. Yeah, just kind of like out of really, do I really want that? Because ultimately, I'm a mix of...

If the t-shirt feels nice in the stand and the other, I don't care if I got it from the supermarket. Do you know what I mean? If it's a cold white tee, nice black t-shirt, I don't need it to be a label. But what I realized is over the years when I did buy good pieces, nice quality things that were well made, that even though I'm terrible at looking after things, some of these things I can put a jacket on that I bought. 25 years ago and it's still like wow you know this this thing's incredible like so for certain things like you say the jackets and whatnot if you've got the opportunity yeah why not and um i bought a real wife got me one for my birthday actually is insane because i've always wanted um a really nice hooded black with a with a hood you know and this one's absolutely insane it's like this is the softest damn thing i've ever felt in my life that's that's nice that's easy to shop for christmas and birthdays for you know what i mean there's kind of a couple zones for you that we know yeah it's become a bit of a thing though me and jackets and coats a bit like we i know it has with liam but it's become like along with sunglasses i've kind of like forget elton john i swear to god i've bought more than he's ever had but you're you're are you aviators only no not not only no i mean these what are these ones i don't know yes these are tom four big huge like that when i think when i think of you and sunglasses that that's what i that's what i think of yeah i do like them i basically in about when i was doing a few front covers in um in the 90s um it was gucci actually they they created these and i actually spoke to a guy from gucci of x amount of years ago and i'm saying do you know one thing you guys in your relentless need to create a new a new season's close yeah you forget that over the years you've made something classic and that's quite rare so you could only buy these aviators for one year one season even yeah yeah yeah my wife still she made she changed uh them into sort of

glasses glasses she got them changed and the frames were absolutely incredible and um yeah they were the ones they were the number ones i did the front cover there's a magazine called the face in the uk back in the day the face of course they did a retrospective um a month or two back in london on all the front covers and i looked at it and i'm the only one who's wearing sunglasses on the front of the face not a single because it was a huge thing if you went to do a front cover of a magazine And the photographer's popping away and you keep your shades on. At first, they would say it straight away. But the more and more. So it became this. The glasses thing is, you know, obviously, I don't think I'm like Don Johnson in Miami Vice. And I understand that thing. Oh, he's got shades on on the inside. No, it becomes this kind of battle of wills as in a sense of it's a bit like Anna Wintour. I'm sure people still said to her, can you take glasses off the shot? And she says no. Would you ask Roy Orbison? Would you ask whoever? It became this battle of will. And it made me doing most of my stuff and stuff with shades on. Because I thought it's a real simple way of making something iconic, but it takes time. You've got to be in it for the long game. You know what I mean? You're not going to pull it off. You got to wear sunglasses and pictures for 20 years and people will really start to. Exactly. There are certain people where you can tell them. I can tell that person to take these glasses off for the shoot and then there's some people where no photographer in the world is going to touch it. Chris likes to wear sunglasses and sometimes he'll get the call from upstairs. I've gotten the call from upstairs a few times. I feel like I have a. I feel like I have an issue of days from that era that you're on the cover of. It's like a black and white picture and you're not wearing sunglasses. That's true. That's true. That's just pre the transition into sunglasses. Oh, this is. Okay. So you're saying there's. Okay. This is pre. I'm looking at the face cover right now. It is September 97. Yeah. Featuring Hanson, Cool Keith, Lammy, Patricia Arquette Portisad.

and the verve and you're looking good the gucci frames yeah i went to the face i went to that face retro retrospective and it was all right cool that magazine like you could get that obviously when i was like in high school you could get it at barnes and noble or one of like the big bookstores so it was like pretty available but seeing it all in one place like that was was very cool i think they did a really good job especially with like the sort of music like sound design element i wasn't expecting that part of it oh i was listening to the new record uh this morning and you had a lyric that i wanted to ask you about uh the cave is where i need to be i wanted to know if you could describe this cave if and if you have a literal cave at home and if you're in it right now maybe yeah um yeah i mean it's a multi-level thing i think I got really inspired years ago by this. There's a great book on St. Francis of Assisi's life, and it was quite mind-blowing to me. I had no real understanding of his youth, and, you know, he was kind of obsessed with the knights that he'd see passing through town and wanted to be a knight, and he was a bit of a Jack the Lad, you know? And when he started in sackcloth in this... donkey shed sort of pigsty next to it and what was remarkable about him was that his first sort of followers where some of them were like some of the richest people in the area landowners that just sold everything and just put on the sackcloth and would sleep in a circle in this thing and the book then went on to talk about how he would go off into the hills and go into the cave and find that time to meditate. And he was obsessed with the, St. Francis was obsessed, they say, with the crucifixion. That was his main obsession that he, and he's the first reported stigmata ever. And they were actually embarrassed of it at the time. And Claire was another girl. She formed the poor Claire. She was like a childhood friend. She stitched him these slippers to cover the wounds and et cetera.

um but it was this idea of that mythical cave that stimulated something where caves are involved in a lot of like uh revelations you know what i mean uh for people they are places of contemplation it's just a place in my mind it's it's it's like um it's not a physical cave it's just a retreat within myself from the madness because like some of the album touches on this kind of thing of there's one heavy news and it's like It's kind of a conversation between two people where one of them is literally drowning in the doom and drowning in the kind of current news cycle that just seems to offer nothing other than, you know, at the moment as a society, you know, if it isn't the endless wars, it's being told that, oh. sorry folks there's going to be x amount a million people unemployed in about 18 months don't worry about it hey you know ai is going to be fine you know we'll find find something for you to do don't worry etc and i think you know there's a point where people just get overloaded with information and most of it's negative so the cave is my mythical place like i haven't really got a cave i did have a little bit of woods with a stream that is really beautiful little thing but it has this stream running through it and you know I used to walk down there and there's a very ancient yew tree in there in the wood with these incredible roots and I'd sit there and just try and find a moment where you just clear it all out of your mind and that's the same for like creativity and writing there's a point where you've got to clear it out your mind clear it all out and then wait for like I say the revelation, the revelatory moments. They're the moments that can sustain you for years and years and years is when you have these moments of self-realization and revelation, you know, at the same time. So I think really that cave thing came from the St. Francis story and also a lot of other religious figures have found that cave, but it's more like a mythical cave. It's a cave within myself. Do you know what I mean?

Do you write on guitar or piano or both? Yeah, both. More guitar, really, because I play very claw-like on the piano. And I like samples as well, so I'll loops up and then do that kind of thing. But essentially, having finished Loving You and making it as quite eclectic as I can, I think the next set... of albums will be i'm going to go right back to the very true basics there's a couple of songs on this album that are you know recorded in my lounge you know they a friend of mine did a little bit more work in san francisco on some of them but they are very stripped down you know and i there's a great album by uh primal scream screamer delica back in the day and screamer delica was such a record that it you could have tracks on it that were just out there produced by the orb or andy weatherall and then you could have like a stonesy ballad next you know and i really like that when something opens up the possibilities for yourself and for the listener and for people going forward is like the mixture of sounds going right from an acoustic a vocal hardly anything a bit of piano to a joan armor trading sample with synthesizer and not much else It was the culmination, because of the COVID madness and whatnot, I kind of got put back. So my original intention four or five years ago was to potentially do an album that was nearly all samples, but COVID came along, but also just the actual reality of trying to do 10 songs that come from samples now, not only financially, but just every other way. Oh, yeah. The bureaucracy, the red tape, the clearance of... The clearance is generally fine with... You can come to that deal, but record companies now want a fixed fee as well for you using it. So if every one of them wanted $20,000, $30,000, we're into $300,000. How's that going to work? And you already have some sample clearing trauma yourself, right? Yeah, it's true. We know that. Absolutely, yeah. So it's a tender subject for you, I presume. Yeah, I'm very mindful to get my affairs in order.

um early doors once bitten twice shy that's good advice for everybody yeah that's good advice for any musician yeah because it also um what it does though it stifles creativity and it stops so you could be taking a piece of music that is probably maybe almost a zombie track on spotify you know it's dormant yeah generations of people haven't heard it and you're about to spice it up You're about to re-energize it. Give it a second life. Yeah. And yet they don't see that. I don't see why you should... I think obviously you've got to come to your deal with the original writers, whoever owns that. After that, the idea that you would then pay another $20,000, $30,000 for the right to use it is madness because ultimately someone like me, I just go, do you know what? I've got loads of songs I wrote on my acoustic guitar, man. I don't need to sample anyone. Financially, I don't need to be going into 50-50 deals with someone. I really love that loop of Joan's loop, and Joan's a great person and a great artist, and she likes what I've done with it. And then for me, that's happy days. It's like I'm using a moment of one of your most iconic songs, et cetera, et cetera. We're all happy. But when a record company then says, okay, you've sorted the publishing out, we want something. And it's like, I'm going to give you something if you allow me to finish this damn thing. The people hear it, and they go, oh, what's the original of that? Oh, right, thank you. So, yeah, it's quite a... It's bullshit. Yeah, that sampling thing could die out because of this. Oh, definitely. It has to. Same reason why they don't film anything in Los Angeles anymore. They just put too many fees and restrictions and got too greedy. Like you said, hey, I know this is a great drum loop that I found on this old record from the 70s. I could also pay my guy $500 and have him play it for me, add some dust and crackles, and we're there. And now you guys get jack shit. Throw some crackles on that shit. I'm saving 30 grand. Throw some crackles on it, bro. You're so right there, man. And also, I think now I'm left thinking, well, you know, I gave it a good shit.

shot you know i've got a song this song called music is power and that was um that was a curtis mayfield sample and um that was all cool back then it was just do the deal with the publishing and away we go um but maybe this will be it now because you know if that's the way this is going then i'm happy i'm happy because to me it was just a artistic experiment you know what i mean of course you know joan deserves her cut of whatever and um I'm also not a fool, like you said. I mean, don't they understand that, that that's what people have been doing for the last 20-something years? It's like, nah, let's not bother getting the sample. Just get the dude in and play it. I know people who do that in LA. I know people who on the daily get these songs. They get given a piece of 70s soul or whatever, and then it's like, right, make it, because I ain't doing the sample. But we're going to try our best. Now, the thing is about that, the only problem with that is there's something in those old records that you can't create. Of course. Do you know what I mean? No, for sure. Oh, for sure. Yeah, there's a je ne sais quoi that you cannot replicate no matter how hard you try. That's for sure. That's what happened with Bittersweet. You know, people who don't understand the song, and there's a guy who's got like three million views kind of put a video up recently about Bittersweet Symphony. And he's still getting things wrong. He's still getting... Although he's delved into it on quite a level, but he's still getting things wrong. And the comments underneath, I read a few of them, they're still getting it wrong. It's like, look, guys, the iconic riff that starts the song is not the sample. The sample kicks in when the drums kick in, yeah? Sure. The sample is a 60-sounding string loop with a bit of conga. There is a... tubular bell in there something like that but people think that without even looking into it well the sample must be the iconic intro yeah the best it must be the part that everybody knows yeah that's a good point surely you didn't play this yeah so the irony the irony of that that the world was drawn into the song before the sample even hit and you told that to the judge and they still said no

Well, I think I'm a few years away from having complete and utter eczema years at some point. At the moment, it was the Stones being gracious and signing over their share of the song to me. Yeah, yeah. And having seen a few of those checks over the last two years. That's why you got that new Celine leather jacket on. Yeah, I'm sure. Thanks, guys. I mean, God knows what they were getting. we were selling millions sure i see i see what you're saying now now you're like i see why i see why you guys held on to this for as long as you did absolutely yeah absolutely but we've all been oh we kind of like the beauty of it is is the stones have been screwed big time over the years and um i've got more of a deeper understanding on that now and also they really didn't have to do it you know this conversation really started around me doing a acoustic version of it and look the sample ain't going to be in it oh it's kind of going to prove that there's a yeah the core is there a song within it without your Andrew Lou Goldman bullshit and then they just decided or you know Mick and Keith just decided together no we'll take it did you have a relationship with them at all I mean you knew them socially uh i just oh i know i only met them once when i played i played a couple of shows of them yeah okay you know i think i think that helped because i think leading up to the shows people were like you know there was the odd muttering of richard's not gonna say anything on stage is he yes the muttering of your management being like please richard please if not tonight not tonight this isn't the time so there was a couple of things was like um maybe not mention that and also when i got on the stage this this white line at the beginning of the catwalk, and it was like, don't go over the white line. That's not your... Don't go over the white line is something that's been said in the Rolling Stones camp many times, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure. And there's definitely a little piece of tape on your volume slider on your part of the mixing board, too. Do not cross this line. We're not, we ain't cranking about that much. The Stones just sounded louder. I don't know what it was. Yeah, yeah. But when you played with Oasis, you guys were very loud as well. There was, I had no feeling where I thought that they were cutting your volume.

No, that's a good point, man. And that's a rare thing, you know. And I think that shows the confidence in themselves, you know what I mean? And I respect that. When you've got confidence in your songs, it's your crowd, for God's sake. You don't need to handicap me anymore, for God's sake. Look, I've got Bitter Sweet Symphony and the Drugs Don't Work. You guys have a few more. You don't need to handicap me. I'm fighting for my life up here, man. I'm fighting for my life. oh god well that's what it was like it's like it's like being it was like being bludgeoned you know what i mean so i i had obviously a limited set time anyway and uh when i got to see the full show like first night and then a few nights later i was out of the front watching it i'm like i said tonight it's like being literally bludgeoned i said that it could inspire me or retire me it was one of them things is like wow this is like one after the other song after song after song it was um amazing because i'm i'm like i come from that kind of competitive sort of streak so noel induced that bit of me as a songwriter when i was younger oasis doing everything first sort of was like right you know i said to some guy today i said you know it wasn't noel's house i was most impressed with it was just how many beers he had in his fridge his fridge was huge and when he opened it it was like about 55 cans of beer in there and i'm like wow you know i'm still at the plastic bag sure four or five from the office he's kind of uh yeah you know what i mean so yeah okay that's the parallel his his beer fridge is like songs he has a lot of them is what you're is what you're saying well that's what he did to me yeah wembley he just opened that song fridge i just drowned it i just it was like a tsunami of melody Oh, God. Well, I mean, you guys both had great sets. Every song was a hit. There was no stinkers, no I'm going to go get a beer songs. They just happen to have a few more than you guys, I guess. That's all. Yeah, absolutely. It's okay. Everybody wins from an audience perspective. It was beautiful. All right, Richard. Thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure, man. Great to talk to you guys. I've been listening to your music since I was in high school, so I'm glad to see you thriving out here still. It does give us all hope as we age. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. Good to talk to you.

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