050. - Willy Staley

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Hello, Chris Black. Geez, wow, he's redlining already. Damn, it's fucking, we just started. Was I redlining, like, literally in terms of the audio volume or more of, like, my personality? I would say both, actually, which is, I think they, you know, go hand in hand most of the time when it comes to your behavior. Yes, that does make sense. I just finished working out in the park. I know you're on that CB Park kettlebell. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why I didn't do it earlier. I do. Oh, please. Because you're a lazy-ass bitch, that's why. I am a lazy-ass bitch. But that's fine. What are you doing? Man, you know, I rose early this morning and drove down to Melrose and parked the Mozzie and went for a little jog. So you've been jogging through the places where people go shopping and experience WeHo life? Is that kind of what's going on? Exactly. If I can't get it the right way, I'm going to get it the wrong way. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to – yeah, so I just park the car. I get out and I just run one way and then turn around and do – and then much to the dismay of my readers on Twitter, I give them a little update on what businesses are doing and how they're looking and maybe even how the businesses themselves are feeling. Right, right, right. How they're feeling. So that's like if I were to fly to New York and then rode my fixed gear bicycle around Soho and then tweeted, Varvado still closed. Exactly. Nespresso line around the corner? Yeah, it's the same energy. I would like to think that there's some nuanced nods and winks for the real heads in mine.

something we know nuance is not your strong suit so i understand the differences in our personalities so so you're so you're able to convey all of these los angeles landmarks and hot spots and you know places of the angelino uh ecosystem you're able to convey those to to your fellow angelinos very well correctly exactly yeah as a as a as a i would say honorary angelino um I feel like I am able to, you know, if Craig's is receiving, you know, a produce delivery, I want to be on the front lines reporting that. Damn. Well, you know, if the strategist doesn't work out, then Eater might need a little beat reporter. I think, well, like I said, the Gracias Madre patio is open. Full service Monday through Friday. You know, I noticed last night, Real Food Daily, a Chris's favorite classic on La Cienega Boulevard, also open for outdoor dining. yeah these are all the washed locations of los angeles you know that right yes very washed very washed you need to sorry let me bring you in to the 2021 bro oh yeah let's go to another fucking cool burger place congratulations like what else do you guys have to offer um well you're a new sweet green location i'm sorry you're not really part of the conversation because you you know you You don't seek out flavor like other people might, you know? That's why I'm friends with you, dumbass. Yeah, well, then don't bite the hen that literally feeds you. I'm keeping your ears to the street and your stomach full. And we're not just a burger town. But that does remind me when I was watching an early, the very first Anthony Bourdain show. It was called A Cook's Tour, and he did an L.A. episode in the 90s. I probably sent it to you at some point. But every city nowadays on a food travel show, they have the theme of whatever it is. And back then, they decided in the 90s that L.A. was a hot dog and burger town. Again, is it not, though? I don't see any proof to the contrary. It is not. Well, hot dogs are like a Midwest thing.

That's true. Chicago, Wisconsin, all these, you know, Cleveland. These are places that eat hot dogs all the time. Sausagey, blah, blah, blah. Like the only reason why they said LA is a hot dog town because we have a pinks and we have a, you know, pinks is like a tourist destination. Like, I don't know anyone in LA that eats hot dogs at all. I would agree. That's not – I mean, a glizzy is not a known Angeleno fair. No. I mean, there's the bacon-wrapped hot dogs that you'll find after the club. CB has been tempted by many of those over the years. I've never been tempted by a dog of the hot variety or the four-legged variety. You never liked a hot dog? A hot dog done well is phenomenal. Maybe when I was a fat kid and didn't know any better. I find it, I don't know. It's not because it is shaped like a penis. That doesn't bother me at all. I really was not thinking that at all, but yeah, continue. Well, just the glizzy thing has got it in my mind. You got glizzy on the mind. I got glizzy. I got brain on the brain. You know what I'm saying? I, it just doesn't, I don't know. It just doesn't appeal to me really. Maybe, maybe, I mean, I used to enjoy one at a Braves baseball game. You know what I mean? Because, because you support their mascot or how, why is that? Bitch, no, not because I was a child and that's what my dad bought me. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. But do you, I've eaten with you countless times in our, in our long, long friendship. You've never made hot dogs once, bitch. I've never seen you on the grill with a hot dog ever in my life. That is true, but if you hit my Instagram story highlights, you might find one or two in there. Don't worry, I won't be doing that. What I'm saying is all the bounty that there is to offer you of Los Angeles, you're not going to want. You don't like Korean food. You don't like most Chinese food. You don't like hot dogs. I love Asian cuisine. I know you like Asian cuisine, but like...

I know you don't really like Korean food that much. It's not my favorite, no. And that's a big part of... That's true. I mean, you're a vegetarian and you eat like a child, I guess. Excuse me? There's going to be some hurdles to overcome. Yeah, I eat like a rich child whose parents have incredible taste and care about their health. You may be. That is true. Finish your Fiji before or you don't get dessert. Exactly, yeah. You don't get this date-based health ball for dessert unless you finish your Fiji. I did a wellness check on that section of WeHo. Things are bleak. I saw one pregnancy test and three empty nitrous canisters. I've been seeing a lot of nitrous on the streets of LA. I know, I know, dude. Me too. I think people are really fucking knocking back the cans. And I'm not talking about Bud Heavy. When I was riding my bike in the LA River, there were... That's just been one big nitrous can. It was just, yeah, there were just tanks discarded. But they're all over the place. In Los Angeles, when you... When you leave here, you usually kind of go into nature or you go hiking or you go into the woods or whatever to do your outdoor running activities. But I like that you're so thirsting for, you know, the metropolitan bustling marketplace of WeHo that those are the streets that you hit. I like that. I just don't love like a dusty trail. You know, that doesn't appeal to me, really. And I also, I like, for time and for my purposes of why I'm running, I'm not trying to be like a hill climber guy. And LA is unfortunately, you know, it's very hill heavy. But I'm able to find the flats, as they say, while out jogging. Yeah, your shoes and your socks need to stay undustified.

Yeah, if the black Thorloves get dusty, you know what I'm saying, the feet are going to hurt. We've got a problem. You've got a problem. But yeah, I mean, otherwise, I had a few calls. The day is pretty good. I'm heading to Malibu after we get off the phone. What's going on in Malibu, my friend? Just visiting our mutual friend, Jeff. Oh, okay. That's nice. You're going to take a little dip in the Pacific Ocean? I would like to. I want to get eaten by a seaweed monster and get looked at like, you know. Do I have to wear a mask in the ocean? Should I ask? No. Are you sure? LA's pretty strict, bro. I don't think you have to wear a mask in the ocean. And also, who is going to enforce that? Just like a surfer? I don't know, dude. You never know, bro. They'll start yelling kook at me and then come over. And I think it's because I'm body surfing. Well, that's inevitable. But I think you'll be fine for the mask. Okay. All right. Well, I don't like making mistakes. I like to feel like a local wherever I go, as you know. Well, yeah. I can almost say with 100% certainty you don't have to wear a mask in the ocean, mostly because it will become soggy. That's true. Yeah, go ahead. Soggy mask. My neighbor, he recently purchased an RV. Which is a trending thing. I know multiple people who are getting RVs or renting them to tackle this fine, fine country on the roads now that it's the only way you can travel. But anyway, he's gone. The family's gone to Yellowstone or some shit. And then I texted him last night. Can I use your pool? And he's like, yeah, bro, go ahead. What? So you got a pool now? So I got a pool now. You know, I can't really have any guests. Yes, you can. I'm not a guest. I'm a co-worker. Don't tell anyone. They got a diving board? No, I think it's a smaller pool. I don't think we're doing laps. No, don't do this, Jason. Don't do this. Don't flex on having a pool and then try to downplay it so I don't come over. Don't do that. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not doing that, but I'm saying...

I'm just setting up your expectations. I don't know if this is a fitness pool. It might be more of having some bomb-ass carne asada and then a couple of cold ones while you prance around in the water. Oh, wow. That sounds excellent. Doesn't it? Oh, my God. I love prancing. Well, I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting for that. I guess I can hit KK direct. I'm still waiting for my invite for a beautiful socially distanced outdoor meal at the Vim Jeans homestead. Well, I mean, the problem is our house. Oh, yeah, we're still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're more than welcome to come over and view our home. Do you want me to pick up Papa John's on the way? The guys are more into Yoshinoya or KFC. Okay, well, I can do that. I can make multiple stops. It's fine. If you have any cigs, some Marlboro 100s. That'll go far. That's as good as currency over here. I like that. I'm going to give him a couple cartons of cigs to tell him to hurry the fuck up so I can get some bomb-ass carne asada for my man. Well, we have a guest today, Big Willie. Big, big, Willie. Willie Staley is the story editor of the New York Times Magazine. Just continuing our trend of having guests that are very smart on a dumb podcast. And guests from a media outlet that has filed legal paperwork against us. Exactly. Exactly. Good point. I didn't even think about the failing New York Times, how they filed paperwork against us. I put that in the back of my mind because we're so successful after that. But Willie is a really funny guy on Twitter. He he he's been talking about his show idea called Willie. That is that I believe has, you know, based on the Dave phenomenon. And he's also a he chronicles the life of parking on the street in New York and the trials and tribulations of getting a parking spot, which I know. I know, you know, when I say it sounds boring, but when he says it, it's exciting.

Yeah, he does pose a lot of interesting questions and scenarios on Twitter. A lot of people love him. I'm a fan of his content where he'll say an antiquated phrase and then comment, you don't hear this too much anymore. Same. It's so good. I love it, too. He's also a skateboarder, and he's from the Ye area. So I'm sure you Cali bros will have some stuff to talk about. All right, let me give him a call. And he wrote that really, really, really popular story on skateboarding a few months ago in the Times as well. The profile? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tyshawn. Yeah, it was amazing. Also, seeing that in the New York Times was just like really peak skateboarding crossover. Oh, yeah. Anyway, I'll bang his line. Let's take a peek at what he's up to. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase.

of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. You know, trying to get to Malibu this afternoon if you could find these headphones, you know. Don't ask us any questions until you find the headphones, please. All right, all right, all right, all right. Okay, I just got my headphones in. Oh, wired, man. I'm not surprised. Yeah, yeah. I'm wired in. You can, you know, there you go. And my hair's all fucked up. How are you feeling, Willie? How's quarantine going for you month 18? Month 18? Are you hearing me good? Yeah, you're great. Yeah, you're coming in loud and clear. Great. Quarantine is fine, man. It's kind of, you know, we're in phase, I guess, three now. So, I mean, I'm not saying quarantine is over. Are we in phase three? New York is in phase three. You guys are getting, you're in LA. You're getting rocked back down. You guys, you guys fucked up. That feels a little bit like a personal attack. I mean, I'm under the impression that you were from the yay area. Yeah. I grew up in San Francisco, a small city in the, yeah, the central Bay area. So you're part of the problem, my hyphy brother. So I don't want to hear it. I can't hear your tears over the E-40 blasting in the background. Willie, do you think that Southern California and Northern California should become two different states? I mean, strategically, politically, I suppose there's some upsides to that, you know, depending on one's politics on a national scale. I guess, you know, I like California being big, but I'm a greater California proponent. I think it should always aim to grow. And, you know, I spent time in both parts of the state. I went to college in San Diego. So I have a lot of respect for my fellow Californians who live south of San Luis Obispo. They're part of the state. Wait, why did you go to San Diego, bro? Were you in the Marines? You're a Marines brat, aren't you? It was the best UC school I got into.

UC San Diego, third best. You know, known for the Atari science programs, which I didn't partake in. Known for their Frisbee golf team, too, probably. No, that's Santa Cruz. See, the thing is, people hear the name and they think, man, that must have been so cool. You know, UC San Diego. Nobody thinks that, but go ahead. Cool is the wrong word to use with you guys. Right, right, right. But people think it would be fun. Your college sounds like a freaking vacation compared to mine. Yeah, yeah. Wow. You know, the beach. Really, I mean, you're tucked in between like a spa and, you know. Yeah, people have to go to college in like Wisconsin every year. I've heard about that. Yeah, that must suck. It's looking good comparatively. I get it. And there's probably a lot of hot co-eds there in San Diego, too. Yeah, no comment yet. Damn. So what were you into there besides obviously being like a brainiac? I'm sure you had a solid 4.0, but what were the extracurriculars looking like? You know, hanging out with friends, listening to music, stuff like this. So there was no, like, binge drinking or, like, skateboarding or going to Mexico? Yes, so there was all that. Okay. There was – you could take – I mean, so, yeah, I skated a bit. In La Jolla, that was tricky because if you don't have a car, you just kind of know where to go. There were a couple spots on campus there that were all right and not always a bust. Revelle Plaza, we had a good little crew there. As far as Mexico is concerned, we did go to Tijuana, not frequently, but from time to time. There was this guy named Hollywood Ray. This was his name. His name was Hollywood Ray, and he ran buses that would stop first at UC San Diego, the northernmost of the San Diego colleges. And then I think maybe they would stop at USD sometimes. Then they'd make their way down to San Diego State.

And then finally, you know, San Ysidro went south of the border and they'd drop you off, I guess, at the border and you'd walk across. And that got you free entry to Hollywood Way's nightclub, which was called Club Safari. And which was, you know, it's like $10 cover and drinks are free. You just tip the guy. So, you know. Probably a little relaxed on the ID checking, perhaps. Well, I mean, you don't. I don't know if you could cross, this is all post 9-11, so I'm not sure you could cross the U.S.-Mexico border if you were under 18 and the drinking age is 18. I think that actually the border control took care of that for Hollywood Ray. Hollywood Ray sounds like an enterprising young man. Yeah, Hollywood Ray I think is, I don't want to speak ill of Hollywood Ray. I feel like if I heard things that... Believe it or not, he wasn't, like, the most stand-up dude in the world. No! No! Yeah, I know. Which, you know, you hate to hear that. Do you think Hollywood Ray is turning up in the big Pappas and Beer in the Sky right now? No, I don't know. I don't know what's going on with Hollywood Ray at this moment. I do know that I think some of that going to TJ, to party, kind of died off at some point during... maybe the cartel war years. So I think that, anyway, I think that Tijuana is like kind of having some kind of renaissance as like a city of its own and not being overwhelmed by 18-year-old San Diegans wanting to get drunk or go to a two-short concert or whatever. That's actually pretty surprising to me. I feel like that's a real rebrand for the city of Tijuana. Yeah, it's actually like a kind of a wine destination nowadays. Yeah, if you go south, like, kind of further down by Ensenada, there's a little, like, yeah, wealthy Angelenos like to go there for the little, what's it called, Valle de... Yeah, Valle del Guadalupe? Yes, yeah, that's right. Oh my god, white people ruin everything. They've turned Tijuana into a fucking dorky little wine-sipping destination? It's well south of Tijuana, closer to Ensenada, but sure.

I've turned up there before. Don't worry. So you can stop on the way down to the wine and get some cheap Xanax before you get there? Is that what you're saying? Or is it kind of like a whole different thing? In theory, you could. You could just stay on one south and bypass Tijuana. Or, yeah, you could stop off. You can get the Xanis anywhere, bro. That's true. I just feel like they might have a competitive pricing maybe in Tijuana because it's such a hot spot. Well, that's something that we can look into, Chris. Thank you, Jason. That's what we use this platform for. We like to look into things that I'll never do. And I might. You might. Yeah, you might. Well, have you gotten a haircut yet, Willie, now that the barbers are open? No, I have not. That is classified by most epidemiologists and experts as a high-risk activity. And for what I would consider obvious reasons, it was you're in an enclosed space with a guy kind of right here, right behind you. Or a gal. Yeah, let's not sexualize this. I've gotten my hair cut by gals, too. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to use exclusionary language. So, you know, for about an hour, you know, maybe a little less. An hour? What are they doing to that shit, bro? You ain't got a perm. No, Willie's hair is more involved than yours, Chris. I could see just in the brief moment before we were unable to look at him. He had a vibe. You have a nice head of hair. There's no question there. But I still, an hour seems, I mean, unless you're getting a shampoo. He's getting a shoulder rub. There's a straight razor on the back. Actually, you know what? This is a good thing to ask. Where do you go to get your haircut, actually, in New York? Nowadays, I go to a barbershop in my neighborhood called Clever Barber. And you live in Boston, right? Like Brooklyn somewhere? Yeah. I live in Brooklyn somewhere. Okay.

I don't want to identify your location just in case somebody's mad about you saying that women can't cut hair, but I wouldn't want to reveal that. I appreciate that. No problem. No problem. I think that gives lens to me some way. No, it doesn't, for sure. So you haven't gotten a haircut in how long? Four months? At least. I was due for a haircut kind of the week that everything went down. Like they canceled the NBA and they shut down the city. I was actually abroad. I was on a week-long vacation in Mexico, actually. And I thought about getting my haircut in Mexico City, but decided against it. Very chic. That could have been good for you. It could have been good for me. It could have been a new look. I said no. And so now my wife is twice cut. my sides because i trust her with the clippers uh she can do the we can you know pin up the what's on top she can do the sides keep those tight you know hide the grays a little bit and uh so are you working with an abbreviated quarantine bowl cut then i have like i have like a severe a severe undercut at this point like wow a ton of a ton of hair on top Nothing on the sides. This feels pretty edgy. This feels pretty dazed editorial to me. That's lost on me. What I'm saying is, Willie, I think you've maybe accidentally stumbled into some coolness. That's possible. That's all we can hope for. Even though you're not seeing anyone, it's still good to know for the self-esteem alone. Speaking of self-esteem, Willie, are you owning your gray hairs or how is that affecting you psychologically? It's been happening to me for over a decade now. Oh, really? You're a premature gray daddy. I'm a premature gray sufferer. Gray Stan.

And, well, you know, I think it definitely bothers me. I don't do anything about it. Well, I mean, for some people, like my brother has – I have a twin brother. Oh, I have a twin brother too. Oh. Damn. Twin hive. Let's go. But his gray hair is much more prominent than mine, and mine is pretty much sitting at a zero somehow, some way. Willie, I don't know if you've listened to this podcast before, but Jason loves to talk about his luscious head of hair. That did not mean for that to come off as a brag, but it was more leaning into the fact that my brother, who's much more gray hive, he really likes having it and welcomes it and respects it. and all that stuff whereas if i had gray hair i would be like plucking each one out systematically with tweezers every day did that for years it doesn't you can't get in that battle yeah a fool's i think gray hair is sexy i you know that's easy guys who don't have gray hair like to say i have a little bit but you know i did the opposite of you and i shaved my head um And not that my hair was incredibly long before, but I took the easy way out. But I got a haircut yesterday in Burbank. Chris went from a three to a two. From a gentleman named Big O. Big O, okay. Big O in Burbank. And they tested my – we wore masks. They tested my temperature before I could walk into the barbershop. Oh, wow. Did you feel safe then with Big O's care after that? There was no one there, really. I was basically the only customer in the entire building, so I felt very safe. What made you visit Big O in Burbank? That seems off-brand for you, Chris. I like it as a member of Burbank Hive. I know you're Burbank Hive. It was off-brand, but during this time, I'm trying to grow and experience new things. That's fucking awesome. Paying $100 to get my head shaved seems maybe stupid.

And I will go back to that behavior as soon as I touch down in Manhattan. But for now, why not pay $30 for the same service? It sounds like man saw how much he was spending on haircuts after that tax report came through. And maybe we'll make some changes. Willie, I recently, my father is my accountant. And when I was in Atlanta. I heard this. I was listening to Hannah's episode. Yeah, so I had to go through my expenses with my dad. Haircuts actually didn't come up, Jason, but it's just another classic Chris overspend area. Add it to the list, TBH. I fuck with the growth. A shaved head shouldn't cost that much money. I feel like it's a pretty simple process. Yeah. My wife did most of that. I don't think she's ever done that before. Do you think that has brought you and your wife closer together, that level of trust? Yeah, you know, yeah, it was a big leap of fit for me to take with her and her with me. And so it's been good. You didn't give her a trim, did you? No, no. And I won't let her touch the top. I mean, that's the sticking point right now. She said, I'll watch some YouTube videos. I'll figure it out. And I said, you've said some things that make me believe that you don't know what you're doing in this zone. And so it's been a little bit of friction on that. But I feel like after seeing that head of hair, I feel like you would really look great with a shaved head. No, I think my head shape is not advantageous for the shaved head. I used to go, in my San Diego days, I would go to Supercuts down at the mall near campus on the Whitewood Boulevard. Know it well. Yeah. You know, the one we all know and love. And I would get a two on the sides and a four on top. Almost a slight fade type of situation. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Yeah, yeah. And now I go, you know, kind of like two other sides. I was thinking, I meant to bring this up because you asked about the Grays. I did, I did think about trying to pan him up with Jessica Nett and feel something. Like as a joke in quarantine.

Just lie to everyone. Just go back to work whenever this is over. With like a deep black head of hair. Oil can black hair. Yeah, and just lie. And who's going to really call you on it? If you believe the lie, it becomes true. Wow, that's deep and I agree. Yeah, I've experienced that. So do you think I should do that or not? I mean, you guys are the cool fashion guys. I would say black would be pretty severe on you, but I like the troll aspect enough to maybe say yes. You know, we value humor over practicality here on How Long Gone. I appreciate that. That's a brand pillar for us. Have you been, so you've been working for the Failing New York Times the whole time. Yeah, the whole time. How have you managed? Is it difficult for you or have you kind of gotten into the flow? I think I've gotten into the flow. You know, we've had, I mean, it's been a difficult time in the magazine business. You have a 10-day lag between closing an issue and it's coming out in print. And then on top of that, you have planning lags that can make it hard to be as reactive as you want to be in a news environment like this. But I think that, you know, to our editor-in-chiefs good credit, like, we've managed to keep the thing running really smoothly and do all good work. I mean, it's been difficult in various ways, but I feel like I've gotten into, you know, I'm surprised that, you know, we gave up the paper-proofing process, for example, like the magazine, which is such a big part of it. Which means, I mean, explain that. Basically, that means you actually get to see a copy. Yeah, you get a big, a large printout with huge margins that you can write into and do your edits longhand that way. You know, you get this, your top editor gets this, your fact checker gets this. You collate everything between your changes, your writer's changes, maybe some suggestions from your top editor, the researcher's changes, and you're collating all of this onto one sheet to hand off to your copy editor. And now we just, we have a completely different process. We're on PDFs, we have to kind of...

type our changes in. There's upsides and downsides, but it's the complete transformation of the processes. I guess that part was less of a shock than I thought it might have been. It is, you know, one of the great things about working at the magazine is like we have a staff that gets along really well. I work with such brilliant people and just being able to talk to them casually during the day and ideas that come out of that. I'm going to say it. Yeah, huge benefit. And I do, I miss that. I miss my colleagues a lot. I miss Chopped. I miss a lot of films about Newtown. We know that, you know, this podcast is, Jason is a, well, no, Jason is a sweet green apologist. He's a friend of the brand. It goes much deeper than just enjoying the salads. But I know that you are Chopped Hive. Yeah. And I would love to hear YouTube bozos debate the ins and outs of these two. I haven't had the misfortune of trying a chopped salad, but it sounds subpar, but I would love to hear more. Have you had McDonald's before, Jason? Yeah, but I have. I made it a point in my life to never eat McDonald's again once I went vegan, like when I was 15. And I went in Canada like two years ago, blacked out, and it was bad. But yeah, I've been there, but I haven't had a ton of salads from there. What is your allegiance to chop? Is it proximity to the office, or do you prefer the ingredients in the process? That's a great question. I think I became a chalk salad guy when we were temporarily, all the time, just densifying the office building. We gave up several floors thanks to the good folks, I believe, allegedly at McKinsey. They recommended that we densify the building. Let's leave that at allegedly. I think that's my understanding of it. And so we went from having these great cubicles to having sit-stand desks. And that process took...

quite a long time. I actually remember hearing the gossip about this when it was happening. Yeah. We all remember the densification. Yeah, who could forget? It's pretty bad now, as you want to try and find a way to reopen the place. But in any event, we moved to the Time Life building, a different part of Midtown, close to 30 Rock, kind of a different vibe. Thank you for situating the listener with that, because I think that... I think that giving them some landmarks is helpful. Yeah, yeah. And so under 30 Rock, there's a real healthy clip. And they added a Jess salad. And so I would go to Jess salad. And Jess salad is a slightly different process. They have three blades on the, you know, they have these same crescent moon choppers. But I believe they have two or three blades, I think, which lends some increased efficiencies to the process. Wait, so when you say... Blades? Are you talking about like the blades of a lawnmower? You wouldn't know about this. And that's another great question. They chop the salads up at competing salad restaurants. They have beautiful crescent shaped blades that they roll over the greens and the other ingredients until it's a nice dust. And then they dress it for you. Did you say until it's a nice dust? Yeah, well, you know. Willie snorts his salad. That's a twist. So I was a Jeff salad guy for some time, and then I had to find my way to Chopped slowly after we relocated back to the building. What I discovered Chopped has is the Mexican Caesar salad, which is a really, I mean, that might sound redundant. Last time I was in Tijuana, I went to the place and invented the Caesar salad, and it's fantastic. It is redundant. But this is different. This is a different salad. It's a twist. It's a modern twist. Yeah, it has raw jalapenos instead of croutons. It has tortilla chips. Instead of Parmesan, there's tortilla cheese. And a spicy kind of twist on a classic Caesar dressing. It's fantastic. You get chicken on it. I guess you wouldn't as a vegan. In fact, you might have to sub out the Caesar dressing. Jason's actually not vegan now. He'll eat anything.

But do they have chopped in LA? Should we go do a chopped challenge? That is a TV show, Chris. I would love to try chopped. I'm actually a big fan of a chopped salad. I think there is a point where the integrity of the salad can be chopped too far, and it is taken to a place where... Structurally, it's not sound. Also, the more times a blade crosses... the cell structure of a deep green. It releases more pungent, bitter flavors and aromas. I feel like such a novice now. I'm glad to know all these things. I think you already knew all of that, Willie, and you're just playing dumb for us, and I like that. Surely you've seen a hand-torn basil leaf. Am I wrong? That is a great point. Actually, Willie, near my parents' house in Atlanta, there is a chopped, and there's obviously no sweet greens there yet, shockingly. So I have patronized chopped many times in the last couple months, and I have to say, a little flavorless, to be honest. What's your order? It was a custom joint. That's a good question, Willie. It was a CB original. I could see Chris fucking up the salad in Chop's defense. Bitch, I would have, it would be a romaine arugula mix. That's already a flag. Go ahead. Actually, I think I might – hold on. I think I might have just had romaine. Basically, what I was trying to do is recreate the salad that I love from Montreal. So I think it was romaine, tortilla chips – or excuse me. Yeah, tortilla chips or pita chips if they have it. Do they have pita? They have pita chips. Pita. I'm sorry. So romaine, pita, corn, broccoli. That might be it. And some sauce. I think I see where you're at. Some sauce? Some dressing. You call it sauce. Of course you're making inferior salads. I can see where you went wrong. I can see where you went wrong. That sounds terrible. That sounds like a terrible salad. There's some zigs where I would have zagged. Sure. You guys are eating for pleasure. I'm eating for fuel. That is the difference.

So yeah, all the fuel that you get from the crumpled up pita chips? Yeah, exactly. Just to push you through for mile 13? When you pull the truck into the gas station, you get 89. When I pull the mozzie in, I have to get 91. I get the middle one, not the lowest one, the middle one. That's respectable. I drive an imported car stall. Go the fuck off, Willie. You have to get the 89. Are you a Volkswagen guy? I didn't mean to become any type of guy. I got a car. He bought cash off the lot. And it's been a huge humiliation and a headache just kind of every time. I don't understand. Honestly, New York car ownership as a person who has no interest in going upstate seems unnecessary to me. But do you go to the grocery store in the car? Another great question. First of all, car ownership in the city is fantastic. It's, you know, the city tries to, you know, harm car owners at every turn. It's a great little driving town. I'll give you that. Yeah, great. You just open it up on Delancey. You know what I mean? You can, the bridges in and out of the city, you can drive, that's world-class views. You can just go back and forth over them. And you have plenty of time to enjoy those views while you sit there for hours. I drove over to Manhattan and the Brooklyn the other day in no time for that. That's because everyone has left New York or died. I'm talking about regular New York. I'm talking about the real New York, baby. I'm talking about boom-back 90s New York. The real shit, bro. When I'm going to Jersey, I got to sit in that line on the fucking whatever bridge three hours, and then the toll is what, eight bucks? Mamma mia, no thanks. Take me back to San Diego. I drove across the... and the George Washington goes, that total is $16. Can you believe that? That costs more than a sweet green. That is, yeah. With avocado. More than chopped. And it's, yeah, it's pretty brutal. And chopped doesn't even support local farms probably, am I right? No, chopped does. Okay, thank you. That's not true. I mean, yeah.

I do like going upstate. That's one thing. Are you a Cali outdoor bro who will pitch a tent? I wouldn't go that far, but I do like camping and I do like hiking. Interesting. Do you own a tent? Yes, I do. It's only a truck in my car. That's what I think New Yorkers. I think that's why you have a car. It's extra storage is the reality. No, no. I have nowhere else to put my tent. When you hit Costco for the fucking big boy crates and you got to keep a couple broken skateboards, maybe a bike, like camping stuff. I have, I mean, the storage situation is not that bad. The tent in the trunk is out of convenience. The idea is like, you want to go camp this weekend? Get off of a hat and you can't. It's all there. Yeah, it's no big deal. I mean, and then I use it in the summer months. I mean, go to the beach, play golf with a friend maybe. You know, and I've driven up to like Fishkill for the indoor skate park in the winter. It's great. So much mobility. Once you pass 30 in New York City, if you don't have a car, you're doing it. Wow. You know, you know what I like to do, Willie, is get on a fucking plane and go somewhere. That's what I like to do. You know, your little tri-state area trips. That's cute. And I appreciate it. And there's a place for that. Me personally. I'm more of a globetrotter. You know what I'm saying? It's just a little different. From what I can tell, you go to a skate park two hours away in Mexico every once in a while. You and I, we're not the same. Chris has a real taste for international flavor. Of all the languages he speaks and everything, it's insatiable the way he needs it. I don't speak Latin on this podcast because I don't want to make Jason feel dumb. But there are, you know, I keep a lot of my successes to myself as a humble dude. But I do think that, I think, honestly, owning a car seemed, when I lived in Tribeca, I wanted to own a car because it seemed like I could park it on the street more easily. East Village, the parking is a little dicey. That's a little tough. A lot of one-way streets, a lot of lights at the intersections. And you can't take a ride on red, as we all know.

here in New York City, not even in the outer boroughs. And that's something, to get red on red is honestly part of my culture. That's how I was raised. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to be circling blocks looking for parking, this was very difficult for me in Ridgewood and why, when I lived in Queens, I rented a parking spot because it was impossible otherwise. Flex. But, you know, because the note right on red, it just adds, it adds maybe... You might have 15 minutes to a normal parking response. So are you the kind of guy who, you know, goes out to the car, has the new issue of the New Yorker, just sits there and reads, moves the car for the cleaning and then puts it back? Or do you do it differently? New York sounds awesome, by the way, guys. Go ahead. That's pretty sick. Alternate side, parking rules. I mean, I'm in a once-a-week area, which is a blessing. I move it, you know, I move it at night. I'm not around during the day normally because I'm in mid-time. So I have to just move it at night like, you know, some schmuck. That's trying. These days, all your anxiety has been suspended by the good mayor, Bill de Blasio. We know you're a de Blasio stan, so I'm glad that we could get that out of the way. The guy's been killing it lately. Four more years. He's been keeping alternate side off. I think that's been really nice for people here. But when I do work from home, it's nice. I don't have to sit in the car. I just move the car to the middle of the street and kind of keep an eye on it out the window and then move it back. They've never actually swept my street when I've been present for it, so I don't know what's going on. But, you know, that's fine. I move it, leave it, move it back when I see other people doing the sitcom. You're a follower, Willie. I like that about you. Now, I've noticed a lot on Twitter you've been kind of soft-pitching your sitcom. Yeah. Or a dramedy. A dramedy, I'm sorry. I don't mean to. I haven't gotten the pitch personally, so I apologize for that mistake. We'd love to hear more about it because we both are, you know.

Kind of plugged into the biz. Yeah, we're like, we're Hollywood guys. So we're going to be able to help you out. You know what I mean? I know where Aziz lives. Stuff like that. Well, he's just the guy that I'd want to get this in front of. So the idea is I want to make a dramedy that really talks to what we're talking about today, you know, and what it's like to be a young professional in New York City. And so the concept is it's called Willie. Oh yeah, I see. So the main character is a guy named Willie. In his early 30s, let's say 34, he works in Midtown as an editor at a weekly news magazine called the New York Newspaper Sunday Magazine. And he's single and very... He has a very interesting dating point. Tell us more about that. Like he does very well for himself or there's interesting characters at every turn? I would say a little column A, a little column B. Are you taking a page out of the Californication book perhaps? No, no, no. I consider this pretty original, actually. Got it. I'm not thinking about any other shows that I've seen when I talk about this. Okay, okay. Really kind of fresh. Yeah, yeah. We're going to explore all the issues of the day. We're going to have the conversations about things we're having conversations about. And the main character, we just happen to share a name. some loose biographical details and i would also like i would want to play it on the show but aside from that you think you're the right person for the lead uh yeah that's kind of that's that's like thing one in my pitch okay and you're married and you are married to that um i mean who are you thinking you have an idea

Do you want a counteroffer? If we could get a big star attached to this, that might help. I don't know much about it. Well, you know, if Jonah Hill is available, I mean, I think that wouldn't be a bad idea. But, you know, we could talk to Jonah. We could talk to Jonah, maybe see – or we could talk to Brad Pitt, see if Plan B is interested in producing. You know, I think that's more – we could get a celebrity attached on the back end, you know, that would help on a production side that could help us sell it. You know, Netflix is buying anything, as you've seen. Try this on for size, Willie. I'm thinking he already has experience in the genre of shows that are named after just dudes' names. I'm thinking Louis C.K. for this. What do you think? He's about to pop again. The energy is palpable. Seemingly available. I haven't talked to his agent in a while. Doing one direct-to-consumer special a year is not time-consuming. If you can get in front of these people, that would be fantastic. I have a socially distanced meeting at CAA this week. I'll do that for you, Willie. It's all good. Mr. Chow put tables outside, actually, so it's possible for us to have these meetings in Beverly Hills. Thank God. That's important. Now, you want these to be full 22-minute episodes, or are you thinking, you know, because Jason and I talk a lot about Quibi on this podcast. So we don't know anyone there yet, but it's looking good. So if you want to do something a little shorter, I think we can approach them. Is Quibi off the table for you, or are you willing to entertain that conversation? I think that some of these concepts I have could be broken up into smaller, quick bites. I was saying this last night on Twitter. I do think Quibi, what they need right now is they need a must-watch show that all the media people want to watch and want to talk about. And I feel like a show about what it's really like, you know, to ride the F-train and to go to Midtown and to go get chopped salads, you know, and to go on a Tinder date.

Stuff like to have a bodega guy that was your best friend. These are the stories that people want to hear. And I think if we could get some buzz going on Twitter and among the media classes and in Slacks and things like this. I think the real conversation is happening on Slack, I've heard. I've also heard that. I got to subscribe to this creepy thing. What is it, $10 a month? That's not, you know, that's a little more than the New Yorker. It's fine. And then boom, and then people are exposed to all your other offerings, which I'm sure are wonderful. So Willie is the door in, the path in, and then you stay for Kevin Hart. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. They need Buzz. Among the chattering classes? The chattering classes. The chattering classes right now, the buzz is, I would say, negative. So I think something like Willie, Willie. They need a big win. Yes. Willie, are you comfortable with maybe doing a sex scene with Awkwafina? Because I kind of see that as well. And you could say, no, I don't want this to make you feel weird or uncomfortable at all. I'm sorry. Will you fuck Awkwafina in a room full of people who work at the FX network? I'm going to refer you to the Times at PR, the public relations. Oh, we're familiar with them. Yeah. We know them. You know that we did get a cease and desist from your employer. You guys stole the Billy's logo, right? I wouldn't say that. You made a funny riff. Go back to smart. We made smart, in the British sense, smart artwork for our podcast. I guess it resembled this other podcast that has a guy with an annoying voice that talks about the news. I don't know what you're talking about. Why don't we move on to a different topic?

Actually, I have a topic for you. I recently read on Twitter, on your Twitter, that you had a real kind of rite of passage moment that I experienced in my life was making the switch from fixed gear to single speed. Yeah. That's kind of one of the signs that you are getting older and more responsible in life, I've found. Yeah. I should be totally frank about this. I haven't ridden my track bike for like... I think six years. It's been collecting dust. So I got a flat on it and I was like, you know what? My knees have had enough. I should also confess that after an incident on DeKalb Avenue, I got a front brake for it as well. That's chill. So you are confirming that you're a pussy. I just don't want people thinking, oh, you know. He thought, you know, he was riding, smashing, doing mash SF, you know. I don't think anyone was suspecting you were grabbing onto the back of taxi cabs with like a mohawk helmet. I just want to be clear about where I was going. And yeah, so I took him to the bike shop yesterday. Actually, right before I got on this call with you guys, I got a call from the bike shop. Job's done. Got a new freewheel. Got a rear brake. You're really into like X Games type sports. Yeah. Which really situates me in Cali. You know what I mean? Because I think skateboarding is the cool one, but then there's all these other ones that aren't quite as cool. You know what I mean? Like vert skateboarding. Well, or, like, what's the guy that's very popular, like, X Games guy, but no one really fucks with him? He's good, but he's, like, Nike-sponsored? Nigel Houston? Yeah, like, people hate him, right? Yeah, yes. Because he's corny, but he's actually good at skateboarding, or because he's, like, a corporate thug monster energy drink guy?

So all that's in the mix with Nyjah? I'd say there's other stuff in the mix with Nyjah? You know, as a person who skateboarded in my youth but was never very good, I think it's interesting that you've been able to hold on, Willie, maintain and continue to participate in the culture even as a gray-haired man. So I don't, you know, are you out here ripping or are you just kind of looking from the sideline? Once again... As with the track bike, I'm still skating. I still skate a lot, and I can still do stuff on the skateboard, but I'm not a very good skateboarder. I don't know what qualifies as ripping for you. I'm guessing what I'm up to is not quite there. Ripping means different things to different people. Thank you for noticing that. I think you know when someone's a ripper and someone's not a ripper. At least I would say so. I'm going to say that I'm not a ripper for a number of reasons, but I get out there, I do my ledge tricks, and a little bit of flat, and I have a great time. It's tougher at 34. That's true. But were you pretty good when you were a kid? I never got to be that good. I was definitely better than I am now, but I was always kind of like... keep up a little bit, but I was never that sick. It was never close to getting sponsored. Well, I feel like growing up in San Francisco, too, it's like people are fucking big. Yeah, but often that helps people get better. Oh, you mean like being around someone? Yeah, I understand. That's what I say about my tennis game. When Jason plays with me, he gets better. So I understand that analogy pretty well. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, but I still, you know, I have a little safe spot near my neighborhood here in Brooklyn that has exactly three obstacles. You could, even when our wonderful Mayor de Blasio shut down all the playgrounds, you could hop the fence there pretty easily using the city button. Wow. And it was like, it was basically open and I had a, it was really nice. So I spent a lot of time there over the last few months. That's been great. Really great for like mental and physical well-being.

so if i'm you know skateboarding is so cool now and so popular uh in in all realms you know and and something i back because skateboarder being good at skateboarding is truly the coolest thing out there and it's something i'm very jealous of like it's way cooler than being good at basketball or something else so have you tried sex chris that's no who cares no skateboarding is much cooler So what brand should I be looking out for, Willie? As a guy that works in the – we've seen Supreme Peak. We've seen Palace Peak. I'm aware of Bronze. I'm aware of Lotties. I may be more informed than others. And Dime, those guys are friends of mine. But I need to know, what's the next underground? What is bubbling under the surface that I can cop the T-shirt now and be ahead of all these fucking nerds? What is the next Chrome Hearts of skating? What's the chrome hearts of skateboarding? Yeah, let's be real. So, you know, you sound like you're a soft goods guy. I am a soft goods guy. I know I'm riding Indies till I die and Spitfires till I die. Chris has no interest in what bearings you're using. Bones only, bro. I'm fucking 37 years old. I, you know, I'm super, I'm very, I'm actually, I do write Indies, which I guess is like cancelable now, and Spitfires and Deluxe Wood. And I'm very brand loyal, like to those San Francisco brands. But I don't, I don't pay much attention to like the soft good side of things. I mean, as a New Yorker, I guess, Chris, but I would say, I mean, as a guy, you know, not in New York right now, someone who will eventually come crawling back. I would say. all timers maybe some quarter snacks then i mean quarters but that's that's what i'm saying bro i know about this shit i need something that's what i mean i'm looking to you i'm trying to tap you to find a cooler brand well you're you're a guy of you know you're a guy of a certain age but you're also engaged in skateboarding but you also have like a real job so we have a lot in common you know what i mean i feel like maybe uh maybe you want will to ask you this question

No, no. No, let's turn it around because I just don't keep up on brands. My Thrasher subscription laps, I watch videos, but I don't keep up on that. I feel like GX1000 is very cool. Yeah, GX1000 is very cool. But I'm not from San Francisco, bro. I'm not trying to rep the West Coast. I'm more of an East Coast, Zoo York kind of guy. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure, sure. Big Zoo York guy. I just need to... I mean, look, I have my... I guess, yeah, I guess this backfired. I guess I'll have to let Willie know. Go Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's is a little silly sometimes for me. You know, it's not serious enough. Tone-wise, like, that's why Supreme is so popular because it's so serious, you know? I guess that's true. Supreme gets a little silly sometimes. They have some absurd art. Not really, actually. That's what I think is so funny about it. I think that's why Palace thrives so much is because it... The product was good, but also they have, like, a sense of humor. It's, like, funny. Here's one. If you want to be clued into, like, the... They have merch, though it's not merch first, is Atlantic Drift. Those guys are really cool. What is Atlantic? That sounds like a spoiler company for my Acura. Well, they make videos that Thrasher tends to put out. Mainly, this guy Tom Knox is sort of the center of it. He's a London skater who's, like, really... brilliant, weird, creative skater who's kind of like rendered London, a very unskatable city, skatable. And there's a bunch of other guys in this crew who are also really fascinating, kind of like comic things in an interesting way. And they have this, they have this footage of like jellyfish that they use for all their videos, kind of in like a, you know, you know how videos used to have all that seagull footage and all that shit. Yes. Classic, classic Bay Area seagull footage. Yes. So, you know, it's like, that's like, that's their thing. And they have, that's their intro logo. And I think they saw shirts with that on it. Atlantic Drift. Having an Atlantic Drift shirt, you might really look like you're in the know. I like that. I love being in the know, as you can tell. I know, I know. Also, London is incredibly cool. So anything from London, I immediately give a pass to as cooler than something from America. I'm not too cool.

You have cracked, you know, wait, does he ride for due balance? Yes. Yeah. I've, I've hung out with Tom Knox before. Wow. I just put this together. Yes. Tom Knox and I did, I used to work with due balance and we did a shoot together. I love Tom Knox. He's hot too. There you go. That's the guy. And, uh, yeah. And loose trucks. Max is. part of that as well. More recently, that's a quarter snack skateboard. What do you think about the change as far as when we were growing up, it was very much like everything was big. The tricks were big. The pants were big. The shoes were big. I guess that's true. That depends geographically. Now, everything is very cool. To me, a lot of it seems the style of actual skateboarding seems very nonchalant to me. Am I incorrect in that assessment? Yeah, I feel like there's a big divergence where there's the pros, like people like Nyjah, I guess, who still do like big Hammer Time, you know, like Massive Rails, you know, America. There are still people doing the thing that we remember from our youth. But, you know, I think between... I think social media more than anything else maybe changed skateboarding to be like smaller in some ways. So there's a lot of like, there were first a lot of sort of like crew homie videos or whatever, but then people found out if you have enough people watching those, you can sell clothes alongside them. You can even sell boards. And so like, why do you need to ride for this? Why do you need to ride for toy machine? If you can peel off and just like sell enough boards. And if you have a Nike contract, you can just like. have your Nike contract, have your little fun company with your friends that at least doesn't lose money and do whatever you want. So between like big shoe brands and their money, social media and, you know, the completely like transformed way that skate videos are made and that people consume them. Yeah, it's like, it's a lot looser. I think there's a lot, there's probably fewer guys having results on rails and there's been like, I guess like aesthetic and creative developments as well.

I kind of jokingly sometimes call it the slamming your board into stuff era. A slappy, a curb slappy, a wall ride. Slappies, wallies, wall rides. All this stuff is a little bit more flow oriented and you see a lot more of that these days. It's hyper spot specific and a little bit more creative. I'm not the best historian of this stuff, but I do think that you're identifying something very real. I wonder sometimes if we're at a high water market. There's a recent part that came out that I thought some of the tricks were real kook shit. I wonder if people are going to get sick of watching this stuff. We talked about this in your intro, but you wrote that big story about Tyshawn. I think the fascination with him on a more mass level is because he, at least for me, he approaches it like an athlete, not like a cool guy. Like he looks like what he is doing is so athletic and physical and effortless. Like it reminds me of like a basketball player or something. When you see basketball up close, you can't believe these guys are doing it and making it look so easy. And it's similar in that way. So I think that that still matters if you want to be a superstar, but you can be a cool guy and own a company that makes money and do like cool tricks. Yes. That's definitely true. I mean, Tyshawn, yeah, I think that his popularity and what blew people away about that part in Blessed was exactly that. Not only was he cutting against the broader trends, but Supreme doesn't sponsor the best skaters necessarily. They sponsor the coolest skaters who are either the hottest or the most interesting to look at or live in Paris or whatever. But Tyshawn is... is all of that plus this unbelievable athlete. I mean, and with great spot selection and with all this like, you know, it's just the part was such a thrill to watch. I hadn't seen something like that in so many years. Well, I think that's the thing about skating in general now. I feel like it's crossed over into this place where that part became like a thing people had seen that would have never seen something like it before.

Yeah, you could show it to someone who doesn't skater really care, and they'd be cool. Could you say what video and the name again in case somebody listening wants to watch this? Oh, yes. That is Supreme West. It came out in, what, was it 2018? Yeah. And that's Tyshawn Jones. But there's the famous cover, too, the Thrasher cover where he's, I believe, ollieing over the subway entrance? Mm-hmm. Ollieing over the subway entrance at 33rd and 19th. And I see him downtown sometimes. I believe he drives a red Mercedes SUV to the skate spots, which I also quite like. Yeah, he had, I don't know, I can't remember what car he was driving around in. I know he switched it out at some point when I was profiling him. How long did that take you? How long did you spend with him? I kind of like, we would do interviews here and there over the course of like, I guess it was six months. But it was just kind of like a slow burn for me. I went to his house maybe first time in December or something of that year. No, no, no. He got SOTY in December of that year. And then I went and did an interview with him after that. And then when it started getting warmer, I went skating with him and his buddies a few times. And then hung out at his house here and there. Did you find... When you're around someone like that who's so... good at something uh but also so young uh like maturity wise do you does it feel funny like do you understand what i'm saying like what i think that people like that i know a handful of people that are so talented and so gifted and so ahead of the curve at such a young age that they're weird they weirdly like are mature in so many ways but then also there's you can still tell they're 18 or 19 or 20. Yeah, I think that was definitely the case for Tashon. He's super mature. I mean, he has his own business. He owns a restaurant where he employs his mom, you know. Yeah. He's like, he's so young. And he also, he still, like, likes to, you know, I think I even mentioned in the piece, it's like, I was asking what his summer plans were. And he was like, I don't know, like, I might, like, do, like, go to, like, Six Flags or something and do this and that. And I was like, right. I mean, he's a teenager, but I was standing with him outside of the restaurant he owns. He's super mature and he's really self-possessed.

Um, and he's had, he's had a lot of success at one age and he's got like, he's really driven and he's really motivated. So he just has like, he, he's, he, he definitely has that mix where you kind of forget you're talking to him. Yeah. Yeah. And was this, was that story like a, not a hard sell, but you know, was it, was it, was it a process to get something like that? Like to, to go through? Cause it was a big story and it did really well, but I imagine that, that something like that is pretty foreign to a lot of people at the paper. Yeah, I actually, it surprisingly was not. Amazing. So I talked to Jake Silverstein, I was in chief about it, about the idea, and I showed him actually the clip of Tyshawn skating on Park Avenue and doing that frontside board slide on the front end one of it. And he was like, oh, this is, he's amazing. This is wild, we gotta do it. Yeah, he was like, and I was like, he skates for Supreme. I was sort of explaining, like, you know, the way I pictured it, I was like, he's a huge deal. He's probably going to be skater of the year. There's like this incredibly big part. He skates for Supreme. Supreme's an interesting brand for reasons X, Y, and Z. And just look at this and think about the photos. And Jake, you know, Jake is on board. I do think that's the other part of it that I kind of forget about. It's also like a really New York-centric story too, which makes it work on like a different level. Because that is also interesting, I think. Because again, you know. California is historically known as the hotbed of skateboarding and that culture in general. And I would say that his style is kind of a hybrid of both, really. Just because he's going big, but he can do all the regular shit in the street, too. His heroes were like Biggie and like Dragdoll, or guys like this. Actually, I shouldn't. I should say I don't really recall it as Dragdoll. But think like... some of the like biggest like baker america orange county rail killer guys like yeah that's who you really looked up to that's so funny because that's like the least cool thing to me but they're they're savage they're so good talk shit on baker bro i know you're i know you're a baker boy jason i know i know but it was that era where there's like guys wearing like leather jackets and like studded belts and like trash in vaudeville he's so crazy to me

Like, that's just so... That was everywhere, though. That was like Jamie Thomas starting that. I mean, the piss drunks, that was a crazy moment in skateboarding. It's really funny to look back on. I think about sometimes, like, how coarse actually our culture was as a nation in the Bush years. You had, like... I think about... Because you always think things are, like... If you're a little bit of a declineist and have these tendencies, you might think things are getting worse. But then you remember that there was, like, girls gone wild, bomb fights, like, the piss drunks. All the shit that was like really, really like just, I mean, I guess should I explain what the piss punks are for your... Yeah, probably, probably, yeah, yeah. It was like a crew of skaters who were layered on top of, they were basically coterminous with the Baker Skateboards crew. So if you were to play Tony Hawk, you would know Andrew Reynolds would be probably the most famous one, but there was also Jim Greco, and there was a steamer, and Dustin Dolan, and a bunch of other people. And they were this, like, they were mostly in Huntington Beach in Orange County, actually. And they partied hard. And then they did Hammers. This was their thing. They were, like, they get blackout drunk and fucked up and do whatever for, like, weeks on end. Then they get sober. And, like, maybe I remember Jim Greco being, like, sober means, like, only ball rips or whatever. And then you just go down to L.A. The beginning of Cali sober. The beginning of Cali sober was the pissed drunks. And they, yeah, so then their videos would be full of them in town from Orange County, like, filming in L.A., you know, just, like, messing with, like, crazy people on the street or whatever, and then partying and, like, being blackout drunk, puking, all this other stuff. But shredding. And ripping on the other hand. Ripping. And also everyone wanted to have sex with them on top of them being these like smelly, degenerate people as well. Yes. They fucked. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is an era. Yeah, it is an era. Now, I mean, a lot of them are sober. I think save for Dustin Dolan.

Yeah, they are. You're right. I've followed that a little bit, which doesn't really surprise me. But I think I was talking to my trainer this week about how skateboarders, you know, are treating their bodies more like athletes now. Like that era, the piss drunks, that era of like I just drink and do drugs and like kill myself every day basically is over. And people are kind of like. No, I'm doing yoga and seeing a trainer and I have a massage therapist and acupuncturist because there's a lot of money to be made. I don't like that. I don't like that. This isn't golf. This isn't Tiger Woods lifting weights to be better at putting or something. I don't want skating to turn into that. I think that it still has its edge, but I think that guys like Andrew Reynolds in particular, he had this part in the latest Baker video that was almost like moving. He could still... the fact that he could still skate, I mean, he must be [redacted address] he can. It's, it's really incredible. And, and, um, I think that he's also like turning into a good influence for people in the, um, in skateboarding, which I think skateboarding is short on that. I'm good role models in some ways. Um, and so at least as far as like substance abuse. So, yeah, Jason, I'm not talking about narc shit. I'm just saying like, If you're going to be an athlete, you've got to treat your body like one, no matter what the instrument is. And I'm saying it's cooler if you succeed without doing that, and that's what's cool about skating. Yeah, and that works for your 20s, but if you want to keep some boards when you're 40 or shoes or whatever. The other most interesting thing about skateboarding to me is that a lot of these degenerates are able to get rich by starting their own companies, like you're talking about, Willie. I think that part of the business is kind of breezed over, but it's wildly impressive and kind of a really interesting thing that I don't see happening in a lot of other industries. Just podcasting. Just podcasting, of course. We own this outright, just to be clear. You want to buy a t-shirt?

My friend Hanson wrote a great piece about this dynamic for the baffler. Oh, really? Oh, that'd be great. Please send that to me. I'd love to read it. And I won't remember all the details, but one thing he was pointing out is that like, and one thing that I agree is like a huge tension in skateboarding is that because it's, because it's resisted to such an extreme degree, organization, like formalized rules, all this other stuff. I mean, that's sort of, that might go away with the Olympics. to some degree, but you'll always have, like, what skateboarding really is, which is, like, a constellation of businesses to sell stuff to people with the branded content alongside of it. And so, which is fine. I mean, whatever, that's fine. That keeps the industry going. But it is, there is a tension there. And I think, I mean, one thing Hansen was pointing out is that, like, the biggest aspiration of a pro skater is to become a boss, basically, to, like, to run your own company. So Tyshawn, for example, he has Harvey's Hardware along with Naka Smith. And, you know, that's just like Diamond, I'm sure you guys are aware of. Jason rocks Diamond pretty heavy. So, yes, he's very aware of it. Well, I have the shoes, but I would never wear them. They're worth a fucking lot of money, you idiot. But, you know, Diamond was a hardware brand, like literally, supposedly bolts, but it just became like... It became my life for that summer. But yeah, it did start out as just a bunch of screws in a plastic bag. And so, you know, Tyler Kaishan has one of those that he started. Which isn't to say he doesn't want to sell hardware, too. But I'm just saying that that is one of the ways you can have a graceful exit from skateboarding. Well, I think the fucking awesome, I mean, From what I understand, Jason Dill does fucking numbers with that stuff. It does very, very well. Yeah, I mean, did you read Noah Johnson's profile on GQ, probably? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really good. I mean, he has a place in Santa Barbara now or some shit. But he sounds like he had multiple apartments, I think, in California. Yeah, I mean, last time I saw him, he was like blasting cigs outside the standard in Hollywood, looking confused.

And all I could think to myself was this guy has more money than I'll ever have. So, you know, I mean, that is cool. And that puts it, I like that. I like when freaks can succeed. Speaking of Bush era culture, do you remember when Dill was on the Osborne show? Yes. When he had the hair? He had the hair. Was he smashing Kelly? He might have been. Bro! I know Kelly's on Raya and matches with everyone, right? Bro, the reason you hang out with Jack is to smash Kelly. Let's be real. Like, that's what, you know. Who's trying to smash Kelly? I could see that era a lot of people. Dude, they were so famous. The Osbournes were so big. Wasn't she a teenager? I don't know. I remember it was Jack. Anyway. I think she's older. I think she's actually the older of the two. I think so, yes. Was he on a full arc of the show as a character? I think it's him and Anthony Van Angle appeared on one episode. I was watching it and I was like, what the fuck? It was very surprising to me. Skating, baby. Also, the Osbournes were so sick. What a great show. Yeah, yeah. Truly a simpler time. If it wasn't, it wasn't. Yeah, good point. Well, you know, I know Jason voted for Bush, but we'll save that for another podcast. Both of them. Vince, you're 60 years old now. Willie, thank you for joining us. Thank you guys for having me. It's such a treat. No one ever lets me on podcasts. Well, you know, I didn't want to mention this, but, you know, you did cancel on us, and then somehow you are the 50th episode, Willie. Wow, so a milestone. So I canceled and got me there. That's fantastic. Yes, instead of having a high-profile guest, we went with somebody we know would be good. And I think that shows, you know, that shows, this is for the 50th episode of How Long Gone is for the real head. We ain't cloud chasing. We ain't cloud chasing on this side. Okay, it's for the real head. I really appreciate that. Maybe if we get that show off the ground, I will be like, you know what I mean?

Again, Jason and I have points on it now, so we care. So, you know, we're going to do our best, too. Tell people where they can find you on the internet. I'd rather not. Okay, fair enough. Thank you, King. Have a good one. Later.