795. - Shirley Manson

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Rainy Wednesday here in New York City. We're doing the rare Wednesday recording to accommodate our legendary guests. schedule them jeans what's up i'm only happy when it rains i just wanted to get it out of the system early so i wouldn't fit again thank you for that save us all save us all thank you i was talking to carolyn this morning and i was like she's like do you know how many times she's probably had to hear a rain joke in her you know 30 years of of interviews she's done and i was like i'll find a way please don't find a way I said challenge. It's not a challenge. It's a warning. It's funny. This is literally why usually when I do a podcast, I will hang out with Carolyn and say a bunch of dumb shit just to get it out of my system, just to get the first load out so then I have a little more clarity, get the throwaway stuff done. But I'm going to do that in the intro for this. I was listening to Joe Rogan. he interviewed our guest in 2017 and he was like but you like it when it rains right no dude no that's how that's how different i mean i'll talk to her about it but you know less than 10 years ago there was a time when when her and joe were just hanging out having a fun convo and i i'm assuming and i want to put words in her mouth but the the chances of her talking to him publicly now

I even forget that Joe Rogan was not what he is now as far as podcasting goes. To me, it's very difficult because even though I think he's a fucking Jughead, it is the biggest platform in the world. So if you're trying to sell something, if you're Adam Duritz and you have a new Counting Crows album... Like it's the Howard Stern of our time as far as like a must stop. There's not much of it. There's not really any competition at that level. There's only a handful of them. There's a lot of competition at different levels. Like how long gone? We're kind of like if Howard Stern was more middle class and we threw less baloney at sex workers' privates. If Howard Stern didn't ask Pete Wentz about having sex with Ashley Simpson or, you know. It goes on and on. It goes on and on. Or, you know, force people of color to perform embarrassing and humiliating acts on the E! network. But anyway, that's all behind us. I thought our podcast was at 8 this morning, so I've been up since, who knows, 4.30 a.m. or something like that. That's a joke, but this goose has already been in the oven for a while. Well, I've been up to reading. transcriptions from the diddy trial you know i said i said that i thought he was going to get off you know or get a light charge i remember you saying that he's getting off i still no unfortunately i still believe that well he's still getting off but i'm talking about in the court of law i still think he's getting off in the court of law but this stuff is pretty uh wild to say the absolute least and i have to give it i we need to give it up for cassie because this is like real shit this is like one of the braver things i've seen someone do hey man i've been a cassie stand for years and years you got a long way to go try to take me out to dinner i'll cancel it so what is some of the stuff i know There was a little peepee time happening, right? No, there's all kinds. It's gnarly, dude. It's really gnarly. What do you think? Do you remember what a particularly unique and damning piece of evidence would be? I don't really want to. I don't even like to talk about it because, you know, I don't like stuff like that. But basically, I know you don't work blue, but a male sex. Look, if Cassie can do it, you could do it. That's true. That's true. I'm brave, too. If a male sex worker.

would finish his work and she would have to transport the finished product to another room and put it on Diddy's nipples. This is not a joke. Okay, so Diddy wants the sex worker to engage in acts with Cassie. Yeah. He's in a whole other room saying, I'm not even looking. I'm not even looking. I think in some cases, in this particular instance, that was the case. Okay. Diddy watching on CCTV Epstein style. And then he said, run me my nut and put it on left nipple as well as right nipple. That's what my understanding of the transcript was. Run me my nut. This is going to be like the most. I mean, if you follow academics on Twitter or Instagram, you're fucked because you're getting the full report, whether you like it or not. Basically, like following court TV. There's a lot of PBS style minutia of the inner workings going down on academic. Yes. Yes. You know that. You know that Academics is a known lawyer. He's a bar-certified lawyer. Academics. DJ Academics Esquire, I presume. He is a content creator as well as legal expert, and that's kind of where I go for all of my kind of reporting, if I can. Do you know what field of law he specializes in? Oh, hip-hop style law? Hip-hop style law. Maybe there's streamer laws that he's kind of an advocate for. Streamer law, okay. Because that is an emerging market. He gives a voice for the voiceful, let's call it. Exactly, exactly. When they need another extra hour after the 11th one, he's able to kind of negotiate that for them. It's genius, really. We're going to go until 4, playing Minecraft, you guys. I think we got this done. Um, yeah. So what were you saying? Yeah. Today is Wednesday. I'm finally going to get a haircut today. I'm feeling long, feeling long around the back of the ears. I'm feeling like, uh, what's his name? What's the hillbilly comedian who has name? I can't think of with the mullet. Theo. Yeah. I'm feeling like Theo Vaughn. I'm getting a haircut today too. Um, so that's, that's, I'm glad we're both. I mean, I'm, I'm going to the, um, much discussed Newark airport tomorrow morning.

I listened to Scott Galloway's podcast, Pivot, with him and Kara Swisher, and she's always talking about every episode. She's in SF. She flew to DC for 12 hours. She's in France. She's in Boom. And Scott's saying, I'm worried about you. I mean, I'm not worried about you. but she's like an old woman. I'm worried about you for listening to that podcast. That's more of a red flag than anything I've ever done. Look, I haven't listened to it in months, and I just wanted to pop in and see what the gang was up to. Check out the squad, see how they were. Podcast is a playing field. We're all competition. Anyone can get it, and they're a popular show, and I try to steal what pros they have, and I don't know. Have you found those yet? Kara Swisher, I mean, I feel... It's like, damn, she can't really talk too good. Your job is talking. They got $20 million. It's hard to talk. They got $20 million for the podcast, so I don't feel bad for anybody. I'm feeling bad for me. Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Sorry. I get confused. You start doing anything because you look at somebody who is currently successful and you're like, well, I could do that. And then I listen to Kara Swisher talk and I'm like. Did she get hit on the head? Early onset something? It's a below I could do that. It's like, oh, I feel bad almost. I don't feel bad at all. On some Keith McNally shit, you know what I mean? It's probably me projecting as we get older that moment where the thoughts in your head that are so clear and perfect are different than what comes out of your mouth, you know what I mean? And I can only use Ableton. live so much to cut it up yeah i'm getting there i'm getting dementia is gonna come soon so i get that sometimes i call bean margo and sometimes i call margo bean yeah i said it i think that's brave uh of you to come out and say that you confuse your dog i mean those dogs look different but to me they look the same so i feel you like i don't i mean they're slightly different in size well i'm not confusing the names it's more of like when you when somebody you live with

When you say their name out loud, it's like an autopilot thing. You unconsciously say it. And if you have more than one kid, you don't want to use enough brain power to think about which one is which and you just spit out whatever. You just got dangerously close to calling yourself a dog dad. And I know that you were just kind of... I know what you were getting at, and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but just be conscious of that moving forward. I mean, this is why I love being honest with you, Chris, because you're not afraid to give me a bop on the nose. It's actually not a bop on the nose. It's more of a tug on the ear. It's a tug on my beautiful beagle ear, and I go, and you're saying, hey, I'm just letting you know. When the plate gets tugged, you know what time it is. When the saucer gets a yank. The plate gets tugged, and then Diddy says, okay, I'm all done. All right, finished here. Yeah, so I'm going to Newark in the morning, and a lot has been talked about, but I'm not really concerned. Is that because you've already had all of your last will and testament signed, sealed? No, I just think all this stuff is – I just think everybody's a fucking pussy and freaks out and can't believe it, and it's like shit's going to go wrong at an airport pretty often. Obviously, this is unprecedented in many ways, but I wonder if – this kind of issue that is ebbing and flowing will affect me for the one hour that I'm there. You know what I'm saying? What are the actual possibilities of that? I guess if you're the Secretary of Transportation and that's something that you would say, and it is correct. Don't compare me to Pete Booty Judge, okay? Do not. Pete's out, bro. Pete's out. There's a new one. There's a Republican one. Pete's out of the closet. I know he is, and I'm proud of him for being brave and gay. Sean P. Duffy? is his name wait wait wait wait wait department of transportation this guy was on a reality show this guy was on the real world boston i believe is how he got his start this is how this is how qualified no literally literally literally yes yeah the real world damn i'm a genius jason in 1997 duffy started the real world boston who's got it like me bro i love i love you proclaiming your level of genius because when i said uh this guy this person

i say the name and your brain goes to real world road rules challenge versus him currently being and he he appeared on that show let's call it 17 years ago at least but he is currently the united states secretary of transportation in you know at this very moment and you're like i mean who cares like i it you know i mean obviously i mean it's it's it's a it's a fake job for a fake person but You know, air travel, even if you're flying out of Newark, is still much safer than every other form of travel. But the reason why, and which I learned from listening to Pivot featuring Scott Galloway, just the humans being a land-walking mammal. Jesus Christ. No, like the thought of, like it's very confusing and scary to die when you're 30,000 feet in the air. It just freaks you out in a way that no other thing will. And that's why, even though it's the most safe form of travel, it's still so frightening and scary because it's just so unusual. As I've said before, I'm ready to die. We have a guest today. Shirley Manson is a singer and songwriter. You probably know the band Garbage. They have a new album coming out. Let all that we imagine be the light. is what it's called. I think it comes out on the 30th of May, pretty soon. But they're playing the festival in L.A. this weekend. Yeah, they're going to be in Pasadena. Sloppy seconds for DJ Them Jeans. Of course. Famously. Famously. Over there at Brookside Golf Course in Pasadena. I actually might go because I want to see garbage. I want to see New Order. You should go. And I would say the list goes on, but it doesn't. Let's get for a jingle. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded.

Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Okay, Shirley, hello. How are you doing? You're in Los Angeles, not Scotland. Is that correct? That is correct. I just got back, actually. So I am home in LA. Oh, you live in LA? Yeah, kind of. I mean, I've still got a home in Scotland as well. Yeah, yeah. I think of Scotland as home, really, but I also think of Azalea as home. So I don't know how to answer that question. Let's just move on. This is getting off. You're just a bi-coastal content creator like the rest of us, Shirley. That's right. That's right. Zipping between continents. Yeah, actually, I think I don't want to talk about exactly where you live, but I think my wife said she's seen you out hiking. Over the years. Yeah, she must be in my hood. Does that sound correct? Yeah, I used to hike a lot when my dog was around. And now since she has died, I'm finding it hard to motivate myself. But now you've shamed me. I might have to get back into it. Sure, sure. What is your hiking speed? Are you jogging? Are you walking fast? Or is it more of a stroll?

It's more like desperate crawling with red face and feeling sad and desperate. Well, that's something I think about a lot as a person who lives in L.A., who walks the dogs. I was never a dog person. I've got two now with my wife. I love the walk so much, but without the dog, I feel as if I'm a predator loose on the streets. Okay, that's weird. It is weird, but it's just such an odd sign to see. you know, a fully grown adult man just going on a stroll by themselves in a neighborhood. It's true. What is this guy up to? What's he doing? What's going on here? Yeah, that's fair, actually. That's a fair point. I'm glad you, like, redeemed yourself at the very end of that. I brought it all back together. You did. He looks like you can't see him, surely, but he's a guy who looks like he does. B&E, breaking and entering. Yeah, Luke's dodgy. So it's kind of, there's a red alert in the neighborhood. Dodgy as fuck, because we'd call them in Scotland. Yes, very dodgy. Dodgy as fuck. Dodgy as fuck. Dodgy as fuck. Yeah, so thankfully I'm able to, all that is to say I love to walk. And are you a dog person now? I think I have become a dog person until it's time to go out of town, and then I have to hire the dog sitter, and then I start to sort of ask questions. Question everything. I start to question everything, because we don't have kids, but the amount of money we spend on the dogs, we may as well, right? Yeah. But it's still much cheaper than a human, so we're still in the green, thank God. Indeed, indeed. You cannot lose with a dog, in my opinion. Oh, I couldn't disagree more, but I do understand that. Controversial? What do you mean by that? He's not a pet lover. Yeah, I'm not a pet. I just don't get it. Yeah, sorry if it makes you think I'm a monster. I know we just met. Yeah, I think you're really, really creepy and really suspicious. He's a creepy guy, but the sweet irony. I'm questioning my life choices here. Surely the irony here, he's basically vegan, whereas I eat everything except for an octopus and a mushroom.

Because I believe them to be alien creatures, which is a good segue. I didn't know that. Are you frightened of mushrooms? Well, I know that octopi are a theme for your new record and just you in general, but I've had a theory that I believe that octopi and mushrooms are both alien creatures, and it feels wrong to eat them unless they're prepared by Japanese people with Japanese methods, and then for some reason it feels okay. Interesting. The mushroom thing I find fascinating because I have a tour manager who's literally so creeped out by mushrooms that he starts to sort of like shudder if you're sitting opposite him eating mushrooms and starts to feel panic and sort of phobic. Whoa. He might have fungal trauma because I know people who have these issues with other foods. I have a friend of mine who will remain nameless who has an issue with pickles and mustard. because of a traumatic experience when he was like a small child. I think somebody may have like taken a sandwich and maybe smeared it on his face, you know. So he considers mustard and pickles to be a trigger for him. Maybe your tour manager has had a... An unfortunate experience. An unfortunate shiitake. Well, the weird thing is I watched this... this documentary about uh by the bbc about phobias people having phobias and one of the strangest ones well there were two really that struck me one was a woman was scared of her own knees her own kneecaps oh i think she just needs some lotion is it that bad you know she she did she did as it turns out have like severe trauma like she'd had some kind of accident when she was young so you're quite right about that but then the other one which they couldn't solve was a woman was terrified of frozen peas and she couldn't walk into a supermarket without breaking into sweat and starting to cry it was fascinating because that's because that's where the peas live that's where the peas live wow but the but the peas are sequestered behind a door exactly well not just a door but like they're sequestered in ice and a package

They're sealed. I mean, if I'm afraid of snakes, I don't want to go to a pet store. I mean, I know they're behind glass, but still. It's too risky. But those are the phobias where I have the most sympathy for because whatever happened to you to be brought down to your knees, pardon the pun, by the sight of a frozen pea, the amount of power that this bag of peas must hold over you. Really tells a dark story compared to like, oh, I'm afraid of pit bulls or heights. Yeah, kind of classic. The classic. I just confronted one of my phobias over the last week of claustrophobia. How did you do that? I rode in a tour bus overnight in a bunk. I can hear my husband laughing in the other room. Cause I, I don't, um, I mean, I'm a pretty big person, but something about that is almost like, like if I get stuck in an elevator, I'm really, it's like over for me and it's, it's really scary and I start panicking and I had that experience last week, but I was able to get through it. How did you get through it? In the traditional rock and roll way or some other new way? No, I wish. I'm sober. I couldn't even do anything cool. So I just had to thug it out, as they say. And I think, you know what it is? I think I stayed up late enough that I was so tired that I didn't notice that my nose was grazing the roof. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not super claustrophobic, but the thought of being in one of those coffins with a little curtain. You know, if you wake up too fast and you just smash your face on the ceiling. I mean, we're talking to somebody who's spent a lot of time on tour buses, so maybe you can learn some more insights. She's got some tricks, I'm sure. I really hope. I think we should change subject, actually, because my husband has claustrophobia about getting MRIs, you know, when you're in the tunnel. Oh, I can't do that. There's no way. I'd rather die. I'd rather die. I've thought about this. Okay, so I used to go like a baby into my MRI chamber and really enjoy it.

Now I've started to get triggered a little because he gets so freaked out that I've started to develop his phobia and I never had any problems. So I think we shouldn't stop talking about the tour bus. No, I'm sorry. I have further questions. Just a one quick follow up question. How often are we getting an MRI? I thought that was, I didn't think I thought that was not. I'm here for my weekly MRI. I know the insurance is good over there, so you're taking advantage of it, but that just seems excessive. Well, first of all, I've had a litany of health problems, as has my husband over the last few years. Second of all, I can tell you're young men. You're still robust. I can tell by your voices. When you reach my age, you too might find yourself in that MRI chamber, sweating it out. Okay. More often than you'd like. But the MRI takes, it takes like an hour, right? No, not, no, no, no, no. Okay. About 20? Yeah, about 20 minutes. Do you listen to, do you listen to music? I know that someone, our friend told us that she asked them to put on this podcast while she was getting an MRI, which was a, which is a flattering. That's a big compliment. Very, very flattering. Maybe I'll start doing that when I go in. Listening to you guys. It doesn't feel calming. Get rid of the Brian Eno ambient soundscapes that calm you down and hear. And just hear about mushrooms and octopus. Exactly. The stuff that really relaxes. Well, we can move on from this. I don't want to create more phobia. And it's a shame that your husband has transferred through osmosis this MRI claustrophobia. On to you. That's a very selfish act and shame on him. Yes, it's very selfish. Shame on him. I did want to talk to you about your fascination with the octopi, though. Are you an octopi sympathizer? Do you eat the octopus ever? I have eaten the octopus. Yeah. I no longer eat the octopus. Because you're too close to it? I'm way too close to it. Okay, sure. As I've gotten older, I've gotten weirder and weirder about eating sentient people and animals. Sentient beings and animals. You stopped eating people? No, that's big of you. I've stopped eating people. That's big. You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen. That's big for you. Thanks, guys. I could easily be persuaded to go back and eat human beings again.

I just get queasy now if and when I eat meat. I'm a freak. I'm getting weirder and weirder as I get older. Are you vegan? Are you completely vegan then? I'm not. I'm sort of a pescatarian, I'd say. Are fish sentient beings? I'm sure they are, but I sometimes eat fish. Everybody has their own line, as you know, Jason. We all have our line. I was just trying to see where hers was. I don't have a line, to be honest. Occasionally, if I'm anemic, I'll eat a steak, but I don't feel comfortable after eating it. I feel sad. Okay. There's a variety. I don't have any lines, unfortunately. That's why my life's in chaos. Sure, sure, sure. You don't draw any. You seem like a person who's got it together. How bad is it? Like, are you disorganized? Is the laundry piling up? How bad is your life, Shirley? No, no. It's not bad at all. I am very disciplined with my laundry. Thank you for asking. That's a big one. Yeah, that's a big one. I'm kind of obsessed. I mean, I'm an obsessive compulsive person. So my cleaning, I have a bit of an obsessive compulsive disorder to clean and tidy. So you're saying the staff doesn't do that. You're happy to use the Dyson yourself. I have never had staff in my life. No staff? You have a cleaning person. We all do. I mean, us low-level podcasters can have that. Well, how much are you getting paid? See, this is boggling my mind now. I'm going to guess. I don't want to get into personal finances, but I'm going to guess that we have made less money than you in our lives. And we are still somehow able. See, this is interesting you say that because I've been a podcast host myself. That's true. And I got way better paid as a podcast host than I do as usual. Well, was your podcast powered by MailChimp or was it just a... It was powered by MailChimp. That's okay. Yeah, that makes a big difference. Our podcast is not powered by a giant email server. I feel like we're playing a bit of whose dick is bigger than... And I guess my dick is the biggest, so I'm feeling good. You have the privilege of being able to say I'm a beloved, talented person of note, so you can give me money to do my podcast before I've even began, whereas Chris and I, you know, we're in the gutter. We're clawing our way to the top. Not that it's a dick measuring contest at all, but.

But we, like Chris said, we'll still change the oil on the Bentley. We're just a regular podcast duo. Look, I don't cut grass and I don't wash cars, but I'm happy to take out the trash. I'll clean a toilet. We all have our things that we like and don't like. I don't like. cleaning the toilet do you like cleaning the toilet i'm not saying i'm not saying i like it i'm not saying i've done it in the last five years but i'm saying that if you turn him on but he likes the feeling if worse comes to worse i'm willing to get down in the mud because i remember where i came from do you wear gloves or not gloves when you're cleaning the toilet fabulous question charlie thank you thank you thank you no gloves i'll just wash my hands i'm not as scared of um Cook. Germs, as a lot of people are. I think that I take two showers a day. I wash my hands all the time. That's enough. You take two showers a day? Yeah, of course. What kind of freak, doesn't it? You don't take a morning and a night? No, I take a night. I don't take a morning. Do you wash your hair or no? Not always. Okay. Okay. I mean, it's interesting. It takes a long time to drive. I feel like we're getting very personal. No, no. It's getting weird. Why is it weird? This is what we do as vulnerable, honest podcasters. I'm fucking Scottish. That's why it's weird. Well, don't worry. Chris and I are both emotionally dead inside as well. So I think we'll all find calm and dry by the end of this hour. Well, then we're with our people. It's totally fine. I didn't know. So can you explain sort of the Scottish, the... Yes. What you're talking about, the personality traits, I guess, that are most common and how similar are they to the to the classic British tropes? OK, well, I can't see if this represents anybody else other than myself. So I cannot generalize. But I did grow up in the 1970s in the UK, in Britain and Scotland. And this was a time of the minor strikes and so on, so forth, you know. and electricity would just disappear in a second and you'd be left in a bathtub with your sisters, freezing cold. So baths became an unpleasant experience, especially as our parents forced us to have all three girls in the bathtub at once. And my dad would only allow us to have a bath once a week. This is a true story. I'm not being funny. And anyway, cut a long story short, we eventually got a shower in the house and we all started to be more regularly. But when I first got together with my husband and I,

I'm embarrassed to admit this on air. But my husband said, you know, it's really funny. This was quite like a couple of weeks later. He went, it's really funny. You know, I can really tell that you're European. And I said, what do you mean by that? And he went, well, you know, you could maybe have, you could maybe bathe every single day. And I was so embarrassed. So your husband picked up on the fact that you were bathing... Irregularly. Irregularly, and he had to say something. He had to say something, and he wasn't my husband at the time. Your beautiful husband, he created a safe space. He gave you the space to take care of yourself, and that's kind of what true love is. That's empowering. Yep, yep. He absolutely humiliated me. It was just unbelievable. I was so shocked, and I realized I had a lifelong habit up until I was basically about 30 years old where I wasn't bathing every single day. But I don't sweat. To my defense, I don't sweat and get smelly particularly. You're telling me you're on stage for an hour and a half and you don't sweat. Oh, well, I would bathe after. Of course I would bathe after that. You mean in a general sense, you're not just like a sweaty. Yeah, just in life. No, I'm not sweaty. I don't have smelly feet. I don't have sweaty arms. I don't sweat, really. So anyway, he knocked that out of me. But that's a big confession. You're reformed. That's my Scottish way. You're reformed. Yeah, I'm reformed. But I don't leave twice a day. I think that's very bad for your natural skin oils. Look, I think that's... I'm concerned for you now. Well, look, I'm a 42-year-old man. It's all downhill from here. Still young, honey. Still very, very young. It's all downhill from here, so I can only do so much. I can only do so much. You're a child. I feel like a child emotionally and physically. And because of the peptides, he's feeling 10 years younger. Yeah, I take a lot of stuff to feel younger. I'm sure you do too. Also, I think peptides would sound great with the Scottish accent. Could you say that word really quick, please? Peptides. Oh, that does sound nice. Yeah, that's selling it a little harder. That's selling it a little harder than Jason's saying it. So when you were doing this podcast,

You interviewed a lot of the same people that we have interviewed on our podcast, so there's a lot of crossover there. I wish you hadn't told me that. Why is that, Shirley? I really wish you hadn't told me that because I'm feeling really intimidated now. Oh, I thought you were saying because it's embarrassing for us to have your sloppy seconds is what you were saying. No, no, no, not at all. But you're not having my sloppy seconds. I feel like you probably did the same. You got the same artist but probably did a better job than I did. Oh, no, no, no. Because you're very good at this, I can tell. Oh, thank you. That's very sweet of you. No, I'm not sweet. But I wouldn't go that far. Your show had... had a goal and a theme where you would talk about a specific song from an artist that broke through. And, you know, there's a direction. And for us, you know, we're going to talk about octopi and toilet cleaning. And, you know, who knows where it will go. And mushrooms. But, yeah, we've done Perfume Genius, Dave One. Perfume Genius was your first one? No, no, no. Dave One. Dave One from Chromia. Yeah, you really did do all my people. We did Liz Fair. Now we're back at the dick measuring competition again. Jason seems to be fascinated with dick, as usual. Yeah, usually when I have to podcast this late in the day, I go straight to dick. And it's something that I'm glad that you called out because it's something I've been working on. But I'm quite jealous of the Courtney Love episode because... That would be an ideal get for Chris and I. I don't know if we could do a whole hour with it. Is she a tough snake to wrangle? No, my God, no. She's a delightful snake to wrangle. I had a, I would say a one and a half day correspondence with her after her manager, who's an old friend of mine, suggested that she do How Long Gone. And I think she tapped in and checked it out and then had a lot to... to tell me about it not in a positive way it was it was nice but i didn't feel like i could land the plane it didn't you know what i mean it didn't feel like that was what we were doing feels like user error to me well i think shirley can attest that she's kind of a monologuer and you you know you want that from her because she's a legend and she's got so much to say but it's tough to you know it's tough to kind of have a goal with monologuer you know beyond beyond you know being enjoying it interesting i'm gonna have to listen to the to

to all your podcasts now. All of them. When I have my next MRI, I'm going to start listening to them from day one. Who was your first guest? Who was our first guest, Jason? Maybe Hari Neff. Hari Neff, probably. Oh, wow. Well, now you're just showing off. Fuck you. Shirley, you asked. You asked. I did ask. I did ask. You're right. I'm sure Hari would be like, holy shit. Shirley Manson just said up my name out loud. So, you know, it's reciprocal. But the reason why I brought the pod up, you doing it around COVID time was, You recorded it remotely, just like this, where many other pods prefer to do them in person, oftentimes on video, so it can be clipped out on the TikTok. So does this feel normal and natural and more comfortable for you doing it remotely? Because that's the way we feel comfortable. I like being either in person or like this, as though I'm on the telephone, that thing I cannot stand. is is being you know seeing both the person i'm talking to and myself on screen as i'm trying to hold a thread of like common sense it's impossible for me i get so distracted i i'm surprised that the zoom technology hasn't gotten there where you can kind of x yourself out it's it's surprising to me that that's not like an option well actually what i do is i i have a little my notes app on my laptop And I use that to cover up my camera so I can't see myself. But you want to see the person you're talking to? Yeah, just to see if what I'm saying is hurting their feelings or if they're enjoying it. And sometimes there's a lot of language that can be transferred with just eyes and people will laugh. silently with their face and things like that, you know what I mean? Yeah, I didn't know what you were saying. I used to hate it, and now I like the video aspect a little bit. You don't feel like a pair? No, because they can watch me as well. It's not that kind of show, Shirley, first of all. Oh, so you say. Get your head out of the fucking gutter and we can get back on track. I pay $19 a month.

I get to chat with them whenever I'd like. If they're online, we're able to chat. I think that there's something that we've encountered, and maybe you have encountered this too, but where a certain kind of person who's very good at this knows when they want to laugh at something, but they can't. They silently laugh, and they signal that with their face so that you know it's okay, but they can't laugh at that publicly. Which is a real phenomenon I only learned about once we started doing the show. Yeah, see, you're boggling my mind now. But you understand what I'm saying, right? Of course I do. I totally get it. So Jason says something slightly offensive. You know, the person laughs, smiles, but it's all silent. It's miming. I 100% understand. And I can't do that. I'm not capable of that. You're not capable of laughing? Not capable of hiding? Oh, great question. No, I'm capable of laughing. I'm not capable of suppressing a laugh, even if it's something I shouldn't laugh at. You're not capable of that. I think that's nonsense. I also don't think I have anything. I don't have anything to lose, really. You know what I mean? If I laugh, some people have more to lose than I do. Yeah, that's true, buddy. Can't argue with that. We're using being offensive to climb our way to the top. So, yeah, we shouldn't hide any of that, Chris. I hear you're doing very well. That's what they tell me, that you are beloved, even though you pretended you weren't at the beginning of this interview. I hear you're very loved and you're doing very well. It depends on who you ask. And I think that if you like us, you like us. And if you don't, you don't. We're doing better than 99% of every podcast ever made, but then the chasm between my income and Joe Rogan's income is an even larger chasm. An ocean's worth of chasm in that. Which is great. It's a gratitude exercise that I'm trying to think about every day because, yeah, I mean, being able to do this for a job.

You know, talk to amazing people. It's a really good job. It's a really good job, but it's stressful. Was it stressful for you? Yeah, that's why I'm asking. Is it stressful for you too or you're just having a laugh with your buddy? Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code HOWLONG. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code HOWLONG with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston.

South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris? Yeah. Hilton Honors, baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad and Tulum? Hilton Honors, baby. What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. kind of column b honestly i mean it can be just because we do three a week so it's like pretty intense schedule wise maybe more so for jason because he's editing so there's a bigger it's not that stressful but you never feel stressed out oh i feel stressed out every day of my life and i want to jump but not because of how long gone what's the most who's the most famous person you've interviewed Oh, I don't even know. Oh, come on. I mean, it depends on who you're asking. I guess maybe the biggest episode. I'm asking you to. Nobody else in this conversation. Well, I mean, okay, here's a good example. We had a musician named Hozier, who you've heard of probably. Yes, of course. And he by far has had the most downloads because he has a very large fan base and a very rabid fan base. So whatever he does. People are on him. But we also, a few months later, interviewed Johnny Marr from the Smiths. And that, to us, is, you know. That's bigger to us. That's bigger to us, for sure. Yeah, so when we're talking to Hozier, we're not nervous at all because we're not, you know, 16-year-old girls. When we're talking to Johnny Marr, it was, you know, you're speaking to royalty. So were you nervous when you were talking to him? He was great. He was actually pretty, he was like pretty mellow. And I think that sometimes guys like that, people like that, know who they are and what power they hold and are able to wield it in the correct way. Yeah, I get nervous when the guy is a legend and he's a dick.

yeah but when he's a legend this is gonna be a long fucking hour yeah but it's i think that the fame thing is yeah like we've we've had paul riser on this podcast you know i don't give a shit about paul riser but he's very very famous you know but like i'm gonna sweat more talking to cat power because that's something i've listened to my whole life you know or even okay so were you were you nervous talking to sean not honestly no because the same thing like well she's so lovely as well it's hard to be yeah she's very lovely and we have lovely she's from atlanta i'm from atlanta there's a lot to talk about you know and it's like we have friends in common it's a very it's an easy conversation okay so i'm i'm then gonna make a statement you don't get nervous no no i'm trying to think yeah and i'm sure i have but like it's the last time i got nervous when we had duff mckagan from guns and roses on and i was i grew up idolizing him as a youngster as a as a lanky bass playing person and the interview really did not go well at all and we actually never ended up releasing it oh my god and that was one where i was i was sweating i was sweating yeah that's i can imagine that well the funny thing about jason i is that we kind of we have a lot of shared interests but also different interests like i don't give a shit about guns and roses so i'm like yeah we can talk to this guy sure you know and i don't feel any i don't feel anything and that's the beauty of having two people so what do you mean the interview didn't go well he wasn't really having it right you know you know when people have been in a legendary band for a long time and then they start releasing solo albums 11 12 over through the years and they don't want to talk about Oh, their past, yeah. I mean, it's okay if they don't want to talk about their past, but he didn't want to talk about anything except the process of writing and recording this new solo album. Oh, okay. But he never really communicated that to us until... The podcast was already done and over, so we didn't know that going into it. So it's a lot of just reaching out into the dark and grabbing for anything. I would say it was a misunderstanding more than anything else. I don't think anybody meant – I think it was just like this ain't working because people weren't briefed properly or understood what was going on. And that's just part of the deal. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, we talked to some people.

I mean, did you ever have an episode that didn't go up? Or did everything you did go up? No, everything went up. But I used to shit myself before every podcast. Like, literally, it was awful. Really? Yeah. All of them? All of them. But in particular, obviously, certain people over others. But I was nervous about all of them. Even the Kelsey Lou episode, Shirley? Even the Kelsey Lou episode? Yeah, I was nervous about Kelsey Lou. Of course I was. She's fantastic. I'll say this. No, she's great. She's great. But, I mean, compared to a David Byrne or a – Yeah, but, I mean, as I said, I was shitting myself on every single one of them. How would you say – but what would you say the average is of people that you somewhat knew before you talked to them or you'd at least met them before? Well, I can't remember now. I need to have a look at a list. But I obviously knew Alanis. I knew Karen O. I knew Liz Faire. I think that was it. Oh, and Peaches as well. I did Peaches, I think. Julia Lewis, you probably knew already. I knew Juliet. Yes, you're right. You're right. I wasn't nervous about people that I loved. I didn't know Robin. You know what? I was pretty nervous when we talked at Liz Faire. Because Liz Phair is like a big one for me, and I read her book. And she's so smart as well. She was great. She was really fun with us. I was just going to say, I remember when we were talking to Liz, I was like, I want you to be my mom, and I have a crush on you, and you're like a big sister all at the same time. Okay, now you're getting weird again. Now you're getting weird again. Shirley, you're creating an open opportunity for honesty. Knock it. Sorry, these are emotions. I'm only human. I know, but you can fucking stuff your emotions, mate. Nobody cares about your feelings. That's what I look in the mirror and tell myself every morning before I leave my apartment. That's what I needed to hear. That is what I needed to hear. So you did what, three seasons? No, I think I just did two. Two. And then MailChimp got sold, and then they never called me back, and that was the end of it. Sure.

Well, thank God you had something to fall back on. Well, indeed. Thank God. But yeah, I used to like get really upset before every interview and like I had to do tons of studying and I was just felt under, under prepared. You were unprepared no matter what? Yeah, no matter what I was unprepared. And like, you know, yeah, I talked to George Clinton. I mean, it's like legendary, you know, Patti Smith. It was like, like you said, David Byrne. It's like, oh my God, I don't think I slept the night before. So I don't know how you do this and feel comfortable. I think that's really sweet. Well, also, not to be a dick, but the average length of your episodes were about 20 minutes long. So, you know, the thing's over in a couple cigarettes. No, but they would record me for an hour and a half. So you had to go through it and they were chopping it down. And they whittle it down. Then it all got whittled. I mean, when you get into the weeds with people like that, especially about actual songs, it can be a lot. you know we don't really also amazing yeah no for sure i mean i love like i love when song exploder is somebody i like i can't get enough of it you know what i mean or whatever it's like when you did the tv show and it was like rem and the killers i was you know i was in heaven but it is it is like a uh it's kind of for the heads at a certain point yeah i think shirley's podcast was produced by the the guy from Song Exploder and Jane Maria, fellow podcaster. That's correct. You know your stuff, young man. I'm impressed. I've got Wikipedia. Also, Shirley, I just DJed this music festival last weekend in Pasadena, and you are DJing the goth version of it in just a few short days. Are you excited for this? What's going on? Well, it's a good lineup, I must admit. We go on before that cave in New Order, both to... two artists who I'm obsessed by. Oh, I didn't realize Nick Cave was playing, Jason. So it goes Garbage, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, then New Order? Yeah. It's like the olden days. Oh, let's go. That's a trifecta. So where does the nervous level compare to...

A 17-minute podcast with Karen O. How does that rank when you're about to open for Nick Cave and New Order? None. I have no nerves at all. Really? Yeah, I have zero nerves. Just because you've been doing it for so long, it's kind of like you can go out there and do it. It doesn't really require much pumping up. Yeah, I guess so. And also, I really love playing live, so that also helps, you know? Yeah. So you're one of those people that actually has fun performing live, and you don't just do it for money? Yeah. God bless you. No, I love it. I love it. God bless you. Interesting fact, though, about the music business is we get paid pretty much some of the fees that we got paid in the 90s. It's like we're 30 years on, but the fees haven't improved. It's kind of wild. I want to say this. I think your fees at certain points are probably pretty high. But also, I think compared to the music revenue and every other form of the industry, But staying level instead of going down would be considered a win for the amount of money that people make now compared to the 90s. That's when the getting was good. You were in the sweetest spot. Yeah, I suppose that's very true. But I just want to bring this up, though, not for me and my band, but for young artists. I think they're really in a really tough spot. And, you know, the expenses have tripled and quadrupled. Yet the fees have not necessarily caught up with that. And it leaves them being unable to do their jobs. It kind of breaks my heart. But hey, that's me spoiling the party. No, no, no. We talk about this kind of shit all the time. We talk about this shit all the time. It's an issue. Yeah, we talk about this a lot. And we talk mostly about the touring industry and how it's just so difficult to... even break even, let alone make money, now that it's the thing that is the only way to make money. Yes, crazy. And like you were saying, the cost of everything goes up and up, hotels and cars and planes and everything, and then the percentage of a percentage of a penny that you make from Spotify every player. Good friends at Spotify. Hey, hey, we're not going to slander Spotify on this podcast. Or even worse, Apple. I've had plenty of artists tell me on the low that they make a lot of money from Spotify. Oh, get lost.

I've had a lot of people tell me that. I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm serious. Surely he does not get paid by Spotify. I don't get I hate. I don't even use Spotify. I use Apple Music. Well, what kind of people are you hanging out with? People are telling you that people that are just name. Tell her one name and I'll bleep it out, Chris. All right. Oh, well, get lost. I mean, obviously, people who are. sort of selling hand over fist who are the night guys of the moment are making shit loads of money but i know other i know people that are middle class musicians and a lot of it is from streaming like i know i'm friends with a band who you've never heard of that probably does 150 000 a year which isn't a lot but if you're not you know on tour all the time or whatever it's a pretty good revenue for doing what you would do anyway i'm not saying it's fair how many band members two really it's like one songwriter you know what i mean so it's like that's where the lion's share goes I'm not saying they're rich. I'm just saying that it's – I think there's a varying degree. They must get streamed a lot. I mean, I think they get streamed okay. That's what I'm saying. I think it's like – obviously, there's people that are – it's really crazy, and the numbers are absolutely astronomical. But I think it can be bad or good, I guess is what I'm saying. Well, you're the first person I have ever met who's said this to me. I'm amazed. I'm actually a gobsman. No one wants to – No artist can say publicly that they make a lot of money on Spotify. They'd be a pariah. Well, yeah, I'm a bit confused by this. I have to say, you've really boggled my mind because I'm well aware of how the economics of all this works. And I have my own career to lean on. So I'm kind of blown away by what you're telling me. Yeah, for sure. I might have to repeat this to my manager. Fascinating to hear what he has to say. Some guy I've never talked. And also, the person that Chris named, probably, I don't know if they own their masters, and I think you guys own a good amount of your masters, right? No, no, we don't. No, we don't. Not yet. Okay. I mean, we've been around so long that soon enough we will. Yeah. It's like a time game, basically, correct? Yeah, but it's mad. I mean, yeah, we have to pay all our old managers.

Oh, really? Yeah. And all our, you know, the record companies and so on and so forth. So it's just like a fucking shit show. And so, yeah, we'll eventually get ours in, I think, three and a half years. We'll get the first two records back, I think it is. That is pretty soon in the scheme of things. You think? I'm going to be 60 next year. I'll be like, what, 64 by the time we get our Masters to Revert. And the people that make the money from these records died. a long time ago. That puts it into good perspective, actually. If the guy's dead, you should have had the rights as soon as he died. Yeah, but you don't. And I mean, it's really, really perverse. I mean, which other industry in the world gets paid? for work they've done 35 years ago. I don't get it. The Sunset Claw stuff where a manager gets the money for whatever records he worked on, that kind of shit is crazy. That just doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem right. I was listening to you talk about this almost 10 years ago on your appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast. I think now I wanted to ask you now in the year of 2025, where a lot of people are able to operate and find success in this industry without having to go through a major label or distributor and they can just do everything themselves. Do you feel a little hope on the horizon? Well, I think that, of course, people can always beat the system. There will always be the anomaly, right? A lot of the time that you beat the system is when you're brand new. You're brand new artists. Everyone's excited about discovering you. They'll talk you up. They'll put you on all their festivals. They'll play you on the radio. They'll play you. You're all over TikTok, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the issue is what then happens when inevitably you become like the old shoe, right? Sure. I would argue that you really struggle without a major label distribution service.

You can do without the label services, but you cannot really thrive globally in competition with all these other big artists without a really serious distribution system. It's impossible. I agree. No, that is a good point. Thanks, guys. Appreciate that. Well, hopefully as soon as you get control of your masters, you can sell them to a venture capitalist fund for a few tens of millions of dollars and they can put them into laundry detergent commercials and make twice the money and we'll all live to find another day, right? Well, we've already been offered quite a few of those deals and we've turned them down. Why have you turned them? They just don't feel fair to you, or you're just not interested? Yeah, they don't feel fair. You're too rich. It doesn't matter? Oh, please. Player, please. Get lost. As I said, I'm sure you probably... Player, please. Yes, player, please. No, but I think those deals are also kind of warping people's sense of what is... I mean, I hear stuff where I'm like, there's just no way. I don't care how many financial models you did. There's no way that this is worth $200 million. You know, it just doesn't make sense to me. And I don't know. If they are offering $200 million... you can be guaranteed it's worth at least three times that. Yeah. But my point is a lot of stuff has to happen for it to be worth three times that. This is all projection. Well, the bands that are, no, they do their mathematics. They look into the books. They look at your song royalties and et cetera, et cetera. And they make a deal based on numbers. I mean, it's like a publishing. I mean, it's like what they think they can do with it. Yeah. Because they can do it. They can do that. But you probably can't. Or it won't, even if you knew how to. Well, as I said, why would I give stuff that's worth something to me and my sister's children and so on and so forth to a conglomerate and have no control over?

you know our songs i would never do that really unless i desperately needed yeah yeah you know like if i ended up in the hospital because i've got senile dementia i might have to you know but i respect your i respect your stance because i would sell to the highest bidder and most people would and i know that's wrong you say that but you probably wouldn't i don't know i mean i i think in i know that it's not the right idea but i think that the time comes for certain people where they've like they've lost perspective on what is right and what is wrong, especially when there's a financial number, a monetary number attached to it. I think sometimes people sell for all different kinds of reasons. It's not really fair for me to imagine why. All I'm saying is I don't want anyone having any more control over my life than they already do and record companies. Several labels and several managers already have a certain impact on my life. I'm not giving any more to anybody else. Yeah, for sure. I see what you're doing. What about this situation? Let's say you've got a band and one or two of the members are doing very well compared to the other members of the band. And maybe you get an offer to go on a big tour or to use their songs in a big commercial. the really rich person in the band, it's easy for them to say no, whereas the second bongo player is like, I could use this money, you know. Do you think that that person just had, that's the cost of doing business, or do you think that whoever is the richest person in the band, if you don't do the commercial, then you have to write everyone else a little bit of a check, like a little, we'll call it a... a kill feed again i mean again i think it's individual right because each band or set of songwriters are everybody has different dynamics and some of them really really hate each other so i would imagine they would just be like yeah fuck you like that's my favorite band i mean historically those are my favorite i i think that when you

when you know it's just too good and you still hate each other but there's magic there and you hold on there's nothing i romanticize more i mean that's real art right there i just i really do i think it's like some people found each other you know some people find each other and it's just kind of you're touched by god and you have to sing together you have to play together and it works and you know that that's more important than whatever your beef is yeah but there's or hopefully more usually though bands i think end up like you know splitting up because they can't handle each other anymore you know yeah but i i no of course of course i mean obviously and a lot of it's over money of course as you so rightly point out i just i wonder i wonder if yeah i mean i think that that's but also we're seeing all these people reunite because i think they realize the the power of the music is kind of yeah you know like like no like like oasis like obviously they're getting paid a lot of money But they have a lot of fucking money. They're not really hurting for money. I think a part of it is the money, but a part of it is like your duty to just humans in the world. You can give them this gift and withholding it is doing all of us a disservice. You kind of just have to do it, you know? You really think that? I think sometimes. I don't think that with them. I think sometimes. Sometimes you put everything aside. I think with them, Noel's getting a divorce. I think Noel's getting a divorce. You know, the world needs it. He needs a hundred million. Well, I was just going to say, I think there are cases just because we've seen, like Jason and I have seen a lot of like punk and hardcore, you know, bands reunite from our youth and they're having more success than they ever had in their hated. Well, I was going to say that. I mean, that's exactly, that it's a real moment for authenticity, right? because we've seen so many stage-schooled performers and sort of very pop-tastic slant in the media for so long that I think any kind of authentic punk or post-punk or anything anti-authoritative, everybody's gravitating towards it right now, so it's a great time for the OGs.

It's great. Or anything not created on a computer as well. Yeah, exactly. I think people are yearning for a bit of that. I mean, because I think about, like right now, of all the things, there's a little bit of like a 90s trip-hop kind of revival. And I don't know why or how that's happening, if it's just the way the cyclical trends work. But Garbage had a lot of kind of elements of electronic music and breakbeats. drum samples and things like that have you noticed a little bit of a uptick in in fans trying to get a piece of like the electronic side of of garbage or like a new audience because of that well i certainly think there's more affection sort of hurled our way than there has been in a while you know you certainly conceal that you're saying it you're saying it's kind of it goes through phases throughout the years yeah but yeah everything is cyclical as you so rightly pointed out and again that's i think I mean, I'm so excited about the Oasis reunion. I think it's like amazing. For whatever reasons they got together are irrelevant to me. The fact that they are together, I think it's going to be pretty gobsmackingly brilliant, you know, just by the sheer force of Liam Gallagher and Noel, you know, getting together again and creating that alchemy. I think it's kind of exciting. I'm getting excited just hearing you talk about it. Let's not forget Bonehead. Yeah, don't sleep on Bonehead. Don't sleep on who? Bonehead. What? Bonehead. That's amazing. I can't believe you just cracked that joke. Which show are you going to? Do you have a plan or is this just a theory about how much you would enjoy it? Who, me? Yeah. Yeah, it's just a theory. Okay. I'm going to a few, but I mean, I'm sure you've seen Oasis a lot more than we have. No, I mean, I've seen Oasis. We've played with Oasis a couple of times. And we toured actually just recently with Noel. We did a co-headline tour with Noel and the High Flying Birds. And I loved him. I fucking loved him so much. And I want this to be a success so hard for him because he's just a really fantastic person.

And I love his brother. And so, yeah, I'm excited about it. I don't know. I'm sure we can go and see it if and when we find out if we're in the same city at the same time. I'm sure that we know a couple of people we could maybe wrangle. You can make a call. You can make a call. Yeah, we can. I'm going to try to see him in L.A. at the Rose Bowl and then at Wembley, hopefully. Yeah, Wembley will be amazing. I feel like that's how God intended. That's how God intended. Outside of Manchester, that's how God intended, for sure. Manchester, I'm a little scared of, if I'm being honest. I think it might get too rowdy for me. Brilliant. You're like, yeah, it will. He doesn't think that he's just going to get in fist fight after fist fight. There could be a little bit of like when a team wins the World Cup and there's cars on fire and, you know, a stampede and people are being trampled to death. Like the highest probability of that happening is in Manchester. We'd be in Manchester. I saw that you're playing with My Chemical Romance in Texas, which I'm very into that billing. I think that's cool. We might fly in for that one. I mean, I've had a real soft spot for My Chemical Romance. When from when they first emerged. And so I'm very chuffed that they've asked us to open for them. It's going to be fun. And this is birthday on the day of the show. So it's going to be a big celebration for us all around. I love I love I also just love the idea of you walking through Arlington, Texas, checking it out. You know, I mean, just just looking in the way, doing some window shopping, getting a coffee, you know, kicking the tires on the city. I can really I know you've seen. all the nooks and crannies of America over the years, but I feel like it can still shock someone. Oh, it still can. I mean, I don't think that anyone who wasn't raised in the American South could ever be comfortable or even familiar with some of the stuff that goes on. Yeah. The very first time I went to Texas was with my old band.

We arrived in a white transit van, as of course most bands do at that point in their careers very early on. And I jumped into a laundrette to ask directions to wherever we were going. And this guy in a white cowboy hat says to me, I don't understand a damn word you're saying. And I was like, yeah. these are not my people. I'm going to have to leave. They're not your people. That's for fucking sure. Yeah. But I'm sure you found a way to love it. Of course I did. We did. We've always had an amazing time actually in Texas and really a laugh. So. But there's that tiny, tiny part that I find a little scary. Of course, of course. Yeah, Texas is your Manchester. Well, speaking of your first band, also on your interview with Joe Rogan, you mentioned blowing the record advance for your first record for your first band. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, that was familiar. It remains familiar. Yeah, we took our... record advance and went and booked ourselves into Hanfordton Studios, which is where, you know, Bowie famously made Heroes, et cetera, et cetera. So super affordable, no big deal. Super affordable, no big deal. But it was right as the wall was collapsing. So it was like, yeah, there was a lot of furore and excitement in the city. And we were just a bunch of wildlings and we partied hard and came back. from recording in Berlin with nothing. No song, no nothing. And we promptly got drugs. Hold on. You spent all that money, you did all the drugs, and you didn't even have a song to show for it? We literally had nothing. Nothing. That's pretty cool. I mean, you hear stories about that, but the reason why it stuck with me was that's sort of what is missing in the world of music nowadays. The thought of that happening, it seems so impossible. I think everyone is so responsible and I think maybe to a fault that we need more people who are, you know, fucking around with record labels, taking, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of money to record an album and just blowing it all on ecstasy.

Benson Boone had a fucking business manager before he had a record deal. These guys are too responsible. Yeah, they're all very professional. I must admit, but they're still an amazing underground and they're still all wild and risk-taking. Even a band as successful as Amel and the Sniffers, you know that girl knows what she's doing. She's amazing and exciting and the whole band's wild. I love it. Actually, speaking of, when's the last time you did Ecstasy? Just out of curiosity. Oh, my God. Now you're asking. Sometime in the 90s. Really? I don't know if I believe that. I don't know if I believe that. Yeah, no, no, that's true. Because what happened in sort of the late 90s in Scotland, maybe even in the mid-90s, is they started cutting Ecstasy with heroin. Sure. Because heroin was cheaper to make. So get to the bad part. We call that one a good one. We call that one a good pill is what we call it. When you get it with a bunch of speed, that's the problem. A little bit of the brown flake in there. I won't tell anybody. But that is scarier, I guess. Yeah, it got scary. And so we all stopped doing it immediately because we were like, yeah, we don't know where this is going to lead. You know, this could end up being really bad for us. So we all stopped doing ecstasy. Not even. But we're we're living in Los Angeles. Our friends are having a New Year's Eve party up in, you know, Beachwood or something. We got a bunch of wine and, you know, maybe a little we'll split a pill, something like that. Nothing like that's happened, huh? No, not in a long time because I'm so paranoid now. yeah i just my imagination goes like you've gotten more paranoid as you've gotten older i've gotten more paranoid and also with fentanyl and everything like i'm like yeah uninterested thanks i'll just stay old and boring yeah but you also lived i mean you you've lived through the the best of times you know kind of for a lot of things or at least the the times that we did people like jason and i romanticize quite a lot yeah i know it's very true we

I lived through a really good, easy breezy, like carefree time, you know? Yeah. I think the ills of the world fall heavy on, on anyone with like a brain now. Whereas I feel like in the 90s, it was hopeful and there wasn't really care in the world. And people behave that way. Yeah, but we can have anxiety disorders. Like now all the kids have got anxiety disorders. And they're risk averse. And they're not having as much sex as we did. And they aren't doing drugs. They aren't drinking alcohol. I mean, these are sweeping statements. But apparently this is all backed up by stats. No, you're absolutely right. It's definitely concerning. I just don't know what else there is to do at that age, kind of. Like, that's the whole point? Exactly. I mean, I don't know what they're up to either. I can't imagine. Well, I know what they're up to, and it's a cell phone, but it's not going to give the same – it's not going to create the same happy memories, maybe, that they think it will. Yeah, who knows? I don't think the kids think they're creating happy memories. I think they just are too fearful of the society we've built for staying home. On their phones where it's nice and safe. I don't blame them. We blame them. It is nice and safe. I love my phone too. I love my phone. You love your phone? Are you on your phone that much, Shirley? Before we go. Yeah, what's your screen time? Yeah. You lit up when we said phone. How much candy crush we playing? I use my phone. I barely use it for anything other than directions. Okay. To start. Okay. I don't know how I functioned without my phone and directions, quite honestly. I don't know how I functioned. I know how you'd stop at a laundrette and they'd tell you, get out of here. Well, I'd stop at a laundrette and really get my head to play with it. That's exactly what happens. My phone makes me feel safer in the world. I have to say, I like knowing it's at my side if and when I get in a pickle. Of course. It's an amazing tool, but it's also the end of the human race. No, it's ghastly. Oh, it's the end of civilization. You should check out Instagram. It's a pretty cool app. That's kind of my favorite thing on my phone. I just wanted to share with you. Well, my niece is contemptuous of any Instagram participation. She's like, ugh, that's so lame, so old. How old is she? She's 15. Okay.

So what is her? What do you think her? Snapchat. No, no, no. It's still TikTok. They're into TikTok. That's what they're into. So they're like Granny Shirley put down the Instagram you're embarrassing us. Yes. Exactly. Damn. On a regular basis. So do you think your 15-year-old needs, does she think you're cool or does she not get it yet? Oh, she doesn't think I'm cool at all. I think she thinks I'm – like the eyes get rolled a lot out of me these days. But there was a brief moment, maybe when she was around five, she thought I was cool shit. Okay. And now she's sort of like giving me the old sighted eye. You peaked when I was five. Oh, you peaked when I was five now. That's brilliant. You have to let her know that you are a cooler person than her, though. Yeah. You were saying, what are we going to do with these kids? What are we going to do? A little bit of bullying. You have to let them know, hey, there's some consequences. Polite but firm. You can get knocked down and get back up again. Polite but firm, Shirley. Polite but firm. No, I'm always just saying, I always just say make good choices. Please, please make good choices. And then the eyes roll and then she walks out of the room. and I feel like I've done my job yeah I don't blame her if someone told me that I would roll my eyes too so I can't really I can't blame her I love saying it to her I love being old and I love being like a cliched old person it's so fun like I don't want to try and pretend I'm you know a hit person I love I love just embracing the fact that I now no longer have to give a flying fuck about whether I'm cool or not I am not cool and I'm proud of it and I enjoy it Praise be. Yeah, I appreciate this, but you also are a person that has had, I don't know, 30 years of publicly being cool. So it gives you some, it gives you, you deserve this if this is what you want. But it comes for everyone with age. At a certain point, everyone, even if you're a lunch lady, you begin to flatulate in public and you don't care about anything. You know, nothing matters. Oh, you become totally, totally cool. You become everything you wanted to be when you were.

Pretending. I say aging is a gift. I say it all the time. It is a gift. I really believe it. I'm going to join you there. Yeah, I mean, I always say you figure out life when you die, basically. And that's the sweet irony. You figure out everything when your body is unable to do any of that stuff. I haven't figured out anything at all. Because you've got another 30, 40 years left. Because you're so far away from death. No, I definitely don't. No, I'm close to death, guys. Stop getting these MRIs. Ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is bliss. I haven't been to a doctor in years. No MRI. Just ask chat GPT. It'll say, you'll probably be fine. You'll be fine. Shake it off. I wouldn't worry. And eventually, your niece will start asking you for guest list positions on music festivals and things like that. Maybe. And that's when you can really take... take control of the situation. Like when two people are arm wrestling, you finally get past the halfway mark. Now, now she's the, uh, the fly in your spider web. And then you could really, well, I, I managed to like get a CD, um, or a record signed by Lana Del Rey, like through people who knew people who knew people. Right. There we go. I am a huge Lana Del Rey fan. Right. And I thought this was, this was the coup. This was the fucking coup. Like, and I got sent to her through the post and it took ages to arrive. So we'd all forgotten about it. And then my niece called me up and asked me, she goes, did you sign this? She thought I had faked Lana Del Rey's signature on her record. Damn. Damn. She's got no faith. She's got no faith whatsoever. I hope you took that CD box. I want to steal it, actually. It's on her bedroom wall. I want to steal it. Yeah, she doesn't deserve that. No, she doesn't deserve that. All right, Shirley, it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining us on How Long Gone. And you guys are playing Crew World this weekend in L.A., and then the new album is out at the end of the month? Yes, May 30th. Let all that we imagine be the light. What a great title. What a mantra. Great title. Really good title. I'm going to do a little bit of mushrooms and stare at the artwork later on today. See where it takes me. I think that is a really smart idea. I might just join you.

Oh, beautiful. You are smart guys, I can tell. We're smart guys. It's been a pleasure. And to you, thank you so much. Cheers, mate. Bye. Country music superstar, Blake Shelton, live in concert. See Blake Shelton, performing at Hard Rock Live, Saturday, October 24th. Get tickets now at myhrl.com or ticketmaster.com. Blake Shelton, live in Hollywood, Florida. Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino Hollywood.