635. - Phoebe Lovatt

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Beautiful Tuesday here in New York City. Them jeans, what's really good? good question bro man i am having a not a beautiful tuesday it's not a bad tuesday it's fine but it's i don't know what's going on but um i'm good i had a i had a nice dinner last night with friend of the show david show and a friend of me my wife carolyn we had korean barbecue and there was a there was a feature that this restaurant i know you're not a korean barbecue fan because it makes your it makes everything stinky it's all stinky right so it's the some of the stinkiest food available for purchase, I would say. I mean, if in Korea they give you plastic to cover up your jacket, you know, that means that the food smells too much. But that's a separate issue. Go ahead. It is actually the exact issue I was going to talk about. The restaurant we went to, K-Team BBQ. Which I guess sort of has a bit of an Olympic theme to it. Great name. Yeah, great name. In the K-team, I'm like, is it north or south? They don't really say. I know that the north competes in the Olympics still, which is fun and cool. But each chair that you sit in is sort of a receptacle. And inside, you open the lid of your chair. Maybe you saw this in Korea. And then inside are plastic bags that you put your clothes, handbags.

Small animals, et cetera, inside to protect it from the pork blood that's mystified in the air, the pink mist. I'm putting my Birkin and little snickerdoodle under the plastic when the beef starts spraying. No, I'm putting Birkin and my Birkin in there. I named my dog Birkin. Of course, of course. Birkin. That sounds... Don't do that. That sounds really... Yeah, I'm sorry. I just feel like that... If I have to put plastic over my clothes, I don't need to be there. That's just how it is. Yeah. Does that also go for maybe a front row at a Gallagher show or a roller coaster that has a water feature? Oh, there's nothing worse than you get wet on a coaster and you're sopping, walking around all day, squishy shoes. What's worse than that? It's the same thing. I mean, luckily, after your Korean feast, I'm sure you just kind of, you know, you weren't. You didn't have a full day ahead of you, is all I'm saying, because it was the evening. So it feels like a victim was crying. I think I may have mentioned it before at some point in the pod, but when my brother and I used to go to Knott's Berry Farm, our mom would... We loved the water feature, right? It was like a river rafting kind of thing. And we would go there first, knock it out three, four times, get splashed. Get splashed in a motherfucker. Hey, Mom, just wait over there. We're running this thing back until we're kind of tired of it. So if you just want to get out your Kindle, that's fine. No, she knew. She had the Kindle out. She balanced the checkbook while we were doing that. Yeah, exactly. But she would bring a change of clothes, and we'd leave them in the Knott's locker. Yeah. And then we would go in, towel off, put on our fresh pair of Airwalks or whatever. Of course. My Suzy shorts. Of course. You know, off we go to enjoy the day, dry, like we just got out of a tampon commercial. That is pro. I've never been to Knott's Berry Farm. Tampopo. That's some West Coast. What do they call it during Halloween? Knott's Scary Farm? Yeah, Knott's Scary Farm. That's good. I mean, Knott's Berry Farm used to be quaint, sort of frontier-themed. Yes. And now it's sort of like...

where where people of downy go to stab okay so it's it's turned into it's not as quaint it's not a pioneer town vibe where you ford the river you know it's like a you you have to you get dysentery it's not that anymore it's now a place for the unsavory members of the southern california population to go commit crimes is that what you're saying or do you think it's just their date spot it's no yeah it's well it's a little bit about you You can do crime a while on a date. Some people like that. I have that on my Hinge profile. Chris, are you really about it? You don't do crime on a date? What kind of pussy are you, bro? Yeah, it says, I have a standing res at Teresi, and I'm going to steal the silverware. Yeah, I mean, anything you can melt down, I would nail it down. You know what I mean? I mean, it's no six flags. Of course. Sure. I mean, that's what, that's my, you know, that's my hometown. Oh, I mean, specifically, specifically the one in LA, like I said, knots is where people go to stab. Whereas the, the six flags in, I think it's in St. Santa Clarita. That's kind of where we go to do our shoot or shootings. Maybe. Oh, that's where one, like, if you're like, we need a, we need a look at my, our venue fell out for when we're going to jump little tuner in. to uh the rolling 70s so if anyone has a backup venue oh you know what we can just do it at magic mountain six flags that's no problem i mean it's a nice public place two for one i mean my favorite thing about theme parks and you know we've talked about disney adults a lot on this podcast but how there's like secret societies on the internet that tell adults where they can drink and do drugs in places like this that won't be caught by surveillance cameras And I really love that that exists. I really love that people are looking out for each other, being like, look, I know you had to spend a stack to bring your fucking two little badass kids here for the weekend, but you can smoke weed in this corner at this time, and you're going to be safe. And I think that's just a nice human condition thing to see happen. I agree. I agree. And it makes you wonder of all the celebs who buy the passes. Like Kanye and Young Lean.

We're just spotted at Disneyland together. Yes. And I don't think Kanye is doing any weed smoking in public or vaping or anything like that, but I think Lean will need a little moment to pull over and to pop off the Benjamin. Where Kanye is more of just like, does anyone have a little nook where I can just kind of... Violently masturbate for a few minutes without getting busted. Can I? I'm sorry. My shoes are so flat. I need to sit down. My feet are really hurting right now. Does this mean that Kanye West, who just released a great freestyle where he says that don't put J. Cole on and make the pussy dry up, which is something we've said on this podcast for years, which makes me wonder, you know, is Kanye West listening or is this just kind of a thought that is in the zeitgeist? I like the idea of Mandela effect. The Sean John tank top photo with him and Metro Boomin is unfortunately pretty iconic. And I just don't know what else to say. It's just they look hard. It's cool. You know, I was thinking about that photo because I think we talked about it a few days ago. But I was thinking about that where Kanye at this point in his life, like he's sort of done it all, seen it all. He's just kind of. doing whatever in the world at this point you know what i mean yeah he's doing what he's definitely doing whatever he's definitely just doing whatever he's doing he's one of the most wealthy people on the planet and he's doing much less shit i mean he's he's basically living like like an unemployed actor in la it's like what do you want to do that yeah you can go watch dude dune 2 at the grove at two o'clock and then grab grab like a late lunch early dinner vibe you know what i mean It sounds like you're calling out Al and Pauly's schedule, but Kanye's on the same schedule. The two o'clock movie. I mean, those guys are busy. They're running. I'm basically calling out my schedule when I was a DJ slash club promoter. When you wake up hungover and you're like, what do you want to do today?

LOL, wouldn't it be funny if we bought a Sean John tank top and then I took a photo of it and I wore it to the club tomorrow and then what do you want to do? Raising canes, drive through, we can pull up. But it was making me realize that I feel like Kanye, I feel bad for him because his profile is so high and he can't really do anything as a human being in the world without being swarmed by... myriad paparazzo no no he can't i know that he want he has these ideas in his mind he's sitting around the house you know drinking drinking something smoking something whatever and he gets this bright idea in his mind of like wouldn't it be funny if i wore like a sean john tank top right now yeah back in the day he would go and maybe he would search through some vintage thrift stores he would visit a sidewalk trunk sale and maybe one of the girlies had one on the depop and she you know but and now he just he just texts milo ianopoulos who then texts like a a captive intern and it's like fine like your job today is to find a shanjong tank top in kanye's size uh in a in a double xl plus size double double he need the boxy fit on the shanjong I need the boxy fit. I need a boyfriend cut. I agree. I need a boyfriend cut. Stat. Do these Katie's come in a boyfriend cut? I agree that that is what he is doing. And all that is to say, it's the thrill of the hunt is sort of gone for him. It's like me presenting Bean or Margo. an expired squirrel carcass it's just kind of like yeah i mean i guess i'll yeah yeah but like nothing you know i kind of i kind of wanted to that's why i mean look that's why he's getting you know he's getting top on a boat in venice because he's he's pushing the limits because there's nothing left you know if there's nothing left for him to experience he's done it all and that's i think yeah i think that's why the clothes get uglier he's he's also giving he's also giving to be clear he's he saw the t-shirt that said treat your girl right? Remember that one? Yes, of course, of course, of course. Of course, yeah. Remember when, I mean, the internet exploded when they realized that the word eat was also inside the word treat. Yeah, people, when people started reading, it was fucking crazy, bro. They went nuts. No, but the song, the remix. Such a deduction. The remix, I was listening to it at Equinox today when I was doing my ski row switches, and I got to tell you, that shit gets me pumped up.

you know when he's firing yeah i i you know i still think drake's the king for sending a marching band to fucking magic city to make fun of metro boom and that is legendary trolling but but actually could i get some clarification on that how how is that offensive to metro boom and i mean i know that he uses because in the song in the song he says metro shut your hoe ass up and go make some drums beep So it's, it's a, it's a, he's, he's, and then he posted all these clips of drumline on his story. Okay. Okay. He's just, he's just having fun, bro. He's just having fun. He's having fun. I mean, uh, it's, it's one of those, like if that was a standup bit, a friend of his would, would kind of pull him aside backstage and maybe throw him a few tags. It's something there, but we're not quite there yet, Drake. But no one's going to say no to the kid, to the six god. Because it's in context of a song with many jabs, you know what I mean? It's not the only one, you know? That's part of it. I mean, it's the only one fired at Metro Boomin, but everybody can get the smoke. We do have a guest today. Phoebe Lovett has a podcast called Deep Read, and she also has something called A Public Library. which is a great website with a lot of books on it, and you can click on them, and it gives you all the information on the book. It's actually pretty well-made and easy to use. I feel like websites like this are usually really convoluted and over-designed, but it's worth a scroll. Okay. Yeah, anyway, let's give her a jingle and have a chit-chat. Lovely. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is this is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code

how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. We have Phoebe here and right before I hit record. I was like, do you have any questions? And you smiled and said, oh, no, I'm a regular. I mean, as in a regular listener, obviously not a regular guest. In fact. I'm quite intrigued why now is my moment for how long gone. I'm not going to lie. Because Jason, I haven't seen you for a minute, by the way. Hi. I haven't seen you in a minute as well. Nice to see you. How's it going? Oh, it's great. Just walking the dog. I'm sorry that Jason looks like... I'm sorry that I look like Kevin Federline right now. I just got done doing some yard work, but that's just kind of what's up. This is how I always envision you when I'm listening to the podcast. Is this... Well, I was out doing a walk and I had a... I had a fleece jumper on and I just got so overheated and I looked at the time and I was a minute late so I just ran in here and here we are. Well, at least you've got your little wife beater on. Me too. We call it a partner respecter on the show. So let's let's. No, we don't. We're back. We're back to calling it. I already got myself canceled within like three minutes. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry. Don't worry. We don't even call it that in England. I did. That was me doing like some cultural translation because I lived in America for a long time. So it's quite fluent to me. But we call that a vest. But obviously in America, a vest is what we call a waistcoat. It's very, it's quite complicated. Yeah, no, it's very complicated. I thought you guys just had a better word for beading, like a wife smacker or something like that, a little more English twist flavor to it, you know? Oh my God, I can't believe I've opened this podcast with this like domestic violence combo. Let's move on. You can blame it on us, it's fine. Some people call it an A-shirt. Because it looks like an A, and I'm like, it doesn't look enough like an A to call it that. I've never heard that. No, when people were trying to stop saying wife beater, it became partner respecter, A shirt, I mean vest, for Christ's sake. That's how far people were going. Yeah, that's how far people were going. No, that's like a parody. Phoebe, what brand wife beater? Top five wife beaters dead or alive. Haynes, OJ Simpson.

G unit. What do you got? I mean, I'm just wearing, I don't even know where this one is from. Haynes are the best, but you can't get Haynes in the UK. It's devastating. Oh, I know. Got it. Devastating. Do they have a different, do they have a different name for it? Like, like, like Haynesbury? No, like there's a whole category of like that kind of really basic American sportswear cheap, but like really does the job kind of, you know, champion. Hanes, all those brands that you can get on Amazon in the U.S. for like $13 in 12 minutes. There's no equivalent in the U.K. You can't get it shipped here. So when I go to the U.S., I mean, I'm back and forth somewhat, but I always make a point of stocking up on those kind of random basics. You can't run down to JD Sports and grab a pair of TNs and a pack of tank tops? What the fuck is wrong with this country? You can definitely grab a pair of TNs, but there's no tank top. Because we don't really have like... tank top culture here it's not really a thing like like in more alcoholism la in the summer like that's the look you wear you wear a vest a tank top or a a top or whatever chris is i think look i think that i think that if you're gonna wear a wife beater you gotta be fucking ripped to shreds. You have to look insane. Like when I see guys in the gym with a wife beater on... Chris, I'm here right now. Hello. I'm offended. Yeah, I was like, what does this mean for Jason? I mean, no, I can't only see your shoulders, Jason, so there could be a whole lot going on. I'm not fat. I'm not fat, but I'm not ripped as hell. Never said you were. Your shoulders aren't much to look at. We ain't got Dwight Howard on the mic here, but the... That is true. You're not wearing it to Equinox at 9 a.m. so people are looking at you. That's the difference. You're using it as a utility. Well, Chris, I would argue that anyone... can wear it if they have a certain confidence a certain je ne sais quoi you can pull it off i feel like phoebe agrees 100 and also in new york in the summer like it's so hot no one gives a fuck well also phoebe you and i are straight so it's a little different if you can do in terms of like guys if you can do our viewpoints if you can do 100 pull-ups on a fucking scaffolding that's then you can wear a tank top there's no doubt it looks better on a toned physique you know a toned in hand

physique but uh yeah this just in clothes look better on hot people wow crazy i mean i didn't listen i've read no that you didn't that didn't come out of my mouth but yes there's certain things certain garments do are worn slightly better by certain people but i think in new york in the summer that's what i love about new york in the summer is like every it's so hot that every rule goes out the window like i used to be someone who's like i don't wear shorts you know You can't live through a New York summer without wearing shorts. It doesn't matter what your legs look like. Everyone has got it all hanging out, and I love that about it. It's sexy. I like some people hanging out. Other people I prefer to kind of tuck in, but that's just me. No, it doesn't surprise me that you don't want to see everyone letting it hang out. I love shorts, and Jason does as well. Big shorts fans. We're a shorts family. Pro shorts. People – yeah, that whole line of thinking that, like, men shouldn't wear shorts is – there's a lot of things men shouldn't do. I think shorts is the least of our rules. I don't know. Wear all these sartorial rules. No, not wearing shorts in the city. Is that a thing? That's like something like Tom Ford has said and people like latch on to, you know, that kind of thing. Tom Ford, Tom Brown, any Tom, really. But I mean, there are rules. I love a man in shorts. Yeah, there's a time and a place. It shouldn't be happening everywhere all the time. Jason, you used to break some rules with shorts, I would say. I used to wear shorts too much. Admittedly so. And I'm more of a pants man. Too many occasions. They're not for everyone. I mean, I used to wear them in the club. But that's California for you. Yeah. When I lived in L.A., no offense to the L.A. listeners, residents, there's so many very stylish people living there. But, like, you kind of forget how – I kind of forgot. Let me speak for myself. I forgot how to get dressed. And, I mean, you know, there's a lot of hats.

It was that era. Hats? I was wearing big hats. It was bad. What kind of hats are you wearing, Phoebe? The moment I knew it had gotten out of control, I remember a friend saying to me, oh, I just drove past you. You were getting in your car. And I realized, I was like, shit, I was really embarrassed because I realized I've fully gone out of the house with no trousers on. I think I was going to a swimming pool and I just literally just put a shirt, but not even a long shirt. It's like a shirt. Because when you're just getting in your car, you're just getting in your car and you're like, Who cares? Who fucking cares? And he was like, yeah, you weren't wearing any bottoms, pants. As if you were living in Bali or something like that, except you were in Echo Park. I fully thought it was acceptable to go out on the street in Silver Lake with literally just a shirt on and a bikini. Yeah, that is Cali lifestyle. Jason, actually, and we've had this discussion many times, Jason... has a passion for driving shirtless. And he's only able to do that when he's on the big island. But he thinks about it a lot and he kind of sells that lifestyle. And this goes back to my same thinking with the wife beater. If you're going to be fucking driving shirtless... You've got to be a hot-rip surfer. You better back it up. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. You better have the goods to back it up. That's all I'm saying. What, like, shirtless in a convertible or just shirtless, like, sweaty against the car leather? Jeep Wrangler. Jeep Wrangler rag top is what I imagine. Ideally that, but, yeah, ideally, yes, a convertible. It doesn't have to. But, you know, like, when you're in L.A., you finish a crazy hike up Griffith Park. You're on your way to tuck into an Erewhon smoothie. Your shirt, you'd wring it out. It's so wet. take it off and you're driving down, driving down Hillhurst shirtless. I mean, it's not like everyone, you don't have clear car doors, you know, people can see your shoulders. Yeah, true. But like none of that, none of that doesn't make sense to me. I like to me, the, the, like one of the best things about LA is that you don't, if you want to, if you want to think about it, there's a place for you. But if you don't want to think about it, no one gives a shit. It's quite freeing, you know, like, I mean, I agree.

that culture is now spread globally with athleisure and like no one makes an effort anymore which is a bit of a shame but like I always enjoyed that about LA I found it quite liberating to be like you know especially because London is such a my friends in London are like so fashion fashion and I never really um like I was never I'm not really I call myself fashion adjacent like a lot of my friends are very like fashiony people they look amazing they put a lot of thought into their look and sometimes people confuse me with them and I'm like no no no no like I I like to look okay. Guys, stop it. Stop. Don't confuse me with these fashion icons. Look at me. But to be in my defense, I did have a baby seven weeks ago. So we have to let me off the hook here today. But you had a baby seven weeks ago. You're wearing a white beater. Jason had to walk his little dogs and he's in a white beater as well. So same thing. Same thing. Same thing. It's the same thing, right, Jason? Same level of responsibility. Same vibe. Same vibe. We got to a great look either way. Yeah, yeah, we look great. But yeah, so when I moved to LA, I just was like, it was kind of liberating to not have to feel like I had to put that much thought into it. Yeah, for sure. Saved a bit of time in the day. Yeah, I mean, if you spend every day walking down the runway, it's nice to go backstage every once in a while. That's Los Angeles. 100%. I've listened to a few episodes of your podcast in preparation, and I feel like there is a... an underlying um feeling that you have which is that you want to move out of london what do you think about that oh fuck oh shit does that come oh that's bad that's bad that you listen to like why you probably speed listen to like maybe one or two episodes and that's that's that's your your key like takeaway shit i really try to hold it down but clearly i'm not doing a very good job hold it down That's not my key takeaway. That's just one of many cards in the deck that I plan to reveal throughout this conversation, Phoebe. What have I been saying? Well, we're going to get to that. But is it fair to say that you may... It sounds like you're yearning for New York, Los Angeles. You've even spoken about it a little bit on today's episode. Do you have a... Well, first of all, I will say I'm still a proud resident of the United States of America.

God bless. So let's not get it twisted for the sake of immigration. The IRS is listening, so that's good. Yeah, exactly. But on a practical level, you know, the thing is about me is that's been the story of my life. I just need to go. Everywhere I've ever lived, I'm always like, maybe I should go and live. I think there's just people in the world who always want to know what's going on over there. And alas, alas, I am one of them. So when I wasn't in London, of course, I was always like, gagging to know what was happening in london always wanting you know i'd come back because i grew up in london so like i come back and i'd be like london's the best best city the music's the best the fashion's the best the people are the best and now i'm here and i'm like and it was kind of great you know even though the whole time i lived in la i was like this is very first world problems by the way and i kind of vowed to myself i wouldn't talk about this because it makes me sound ridiculous but i feel like i'm in a safe space well this part this this podcast is only about first world problems welcome home Yeah, welcome home. Don't worry about that. The reason I enjoy this podcast, I do really enjoy it, by the way, is... a lot of comparison of like what's good about different cities and which one we might have a marginally better life experience living in which is yeah but are you one of those people who goes are you one of those people who goes somewhere like on holiday even and you're like i could live here fuck it i could live here okay no no okay i'm not delusional i'm not delusional i did briefly go to live in mexico city okay okay that's delusional but you i know i didn't think you were that white but i guess you are i guess you are You are a digital nomad. I would not. Nomad. Nomadic. Oh, my goodness. Nomadico. Digitales. What did you do there? Were you just there to get some fresh tortillas, or did you stay for a while? Well, okay. So I will say that I'm not going to say I was an early adopter of Mexico City. Oh, here we go. Yeah, no, I understand. We have a conquistador on our hands. Let's go.

Well, I first discovered it in the 1600s. Well, that's part of the reason I didn't stay because it didn't take me long to realize that I am, you know, it's very easy for me to be disparaging. Like I was living with a Mexican friend and we, you know, I kind of for a while was deluding myself that I was like somehow different to all the English speaking people I'd hear on the streets. Everywhere I went, then I realized I wasn't. I'm not like the other gringos. I get it. You know, like, yeah, I was I was part of the problem. So I left. But I was I stayed there for like seven or eight months to answer your original question, Chris. So aside from I think living in Mexico City, even though it's obviously an incredible city and I love it so much, made me realize like you kind of just like everywhere you go, you've got a different set of problems. and i think it's quite delusional to think that you can move to a place that's like culturally that different to where you're living and you're just gonna it was challenging actually it was yeah of course it was you're not you're not just gonna slide in and have like the exact same lifestyle i mean not unless you're trying to live a really ridiculous like truly gringo lifestyle you know and i think that was the that was my that was my final adventure in thinking that I could just set up anywhere and like it made me realize that okay you can be in a city in a country that you absolutely love and you love the culture and you know you can fly to an incredible beach in two hours from Mexico City like it's ticking so many of my boxes but actually to set up a life you kind of need your people and like that's really what's going to dictate yeah and that made me realize quite quickly okay there's beautiful countries in the world that of course I'd love to visit on holiday but i know now from that experience i actually don't want to live in them and that's been good for me it's ruled a few places out because as you can tell like i've done a bit i've done a bit of experimenting a bit of jumping around in my life um so at least now i know like yeah yeah that that reminds me i think i think neil brennan said it but like basically wherever you live in the world there's there's five problems right every country has five unique problems and you just kind of have to pick your poison like this place is beautiful it has this thing this and this but

uh they jail you for being gay or women aren't allowed to vote or they're you know like this government you know like there's always like definitely strike those or or smaller jason there's also weather stuff we can or smaller we can take it down i mean obviously london's london's primary issue is the weather Well, I don't know. It used to be. Now I'd say it's the government. Oh, look, it's fine. Look, it's fine. It's fine. Brexit or whatever you guys are worried about. We love our country. We hate our government. But that was another through line that I noticed in addition to you wanting to leave London. You also. You know, maybe you like listening to us because you are a fellow weather stan. I feel like you discuss the weather a decent amount. Love the weather chat. Wow. Love it. A proper weather chat? Love it. You and Jason are a match made in heaven. This guy loves fucking weather. I am a person who still to this day, every day, looks what the weather's like in the places I've lived. Not the place I live. Obviously, that's a given. I look at the weather. What's the weather like today in New York? What's the weather like today? It's unhinged. Unhinged. My mom does it. My mom doesn't live in London. She'll text me what the weather is like in London. I'm like, I know I'm here. Yeah, mom, I know. I'm right here. It's how white people bond. It's how white people bond with each other. It really is. It's real peak. But yeah, I love the weather chat. Because the thing is, you can see it on the app, but you don't have a visceral sense of what it's like on the ground. Look, also, I want to say, and I don't want to attack Tim Apple or any of the great people over at the Apple Corporation, but... The weather application. Since Dark Sky got purchased and killed, RIP to the goat. No, we're on AccuWeather, obviously. I'm not AccuWeather. AccuWeather. I'm not. Come on. I'm sorry. I haven't downloaded another third-party app. I thought Dark Sky was the end of that. Is that like NTS for weather? No, Dark Sky was NTS for the weather, but sadly it got acquired. We've got a new one coming up from Dark Sky after the break. I still every now and then find myself typing in DA to look for Dark Sky. That's me. Yeah. I think I've got a problem. Dark Sky was amazing. Great application. And I agree with you. The Apple weather app is appalling. I walk outside and I'm like, well, it's fucking raining. I looked at the app.

And it said it wasn't raining. Now I have to go upstairs and get my umbrella. It just ruins my... And then I can listen to How Long Gone and I know what's really going on. What's really going on. Sometimes it says it's sunny in LA and actually you guys are really complaining about it being cold. We all know it's not cold. No, it's not cold. Jason gets cold. He's got thin blood. Well, your blood does thin when you live in a hot, in a hotter climate. Although LA at night. Thank you. I think the coldest I've ever been was when I first moved to LA at night and I was like an idiot, like 24 year old. And I didn't occur to me to like buy a space heater or a blanket or anything. So I just used to like shiver through the nights because I couldn't compute that it was so cold. You forgot to wear pants. You captured. Yeah, your bathing suit was on. I was mystified. Obviously, you learn once the sun goes down, throw a sarong on as you're sort of navigating through the Los Angeles landscape. Desert climate. Yeah, it took me a while, though. I was also wanting to know, we discuss fashion on this podcast. You are a fashion-adjacent girly. And you had the host of the Cutting Room Floor podcast on. What's her name? I forgot it. Rachel. And you guys were both talking about how you don't think Fashion Week should exist anymore, per se, or you're making some cases for it. And we've discussed it a little bit on here, haven't we, Chris? Yeah, but, I mean, why not? Who cares? And that wraps that conversation up. No, I just mean if brands still want to do it and spend money, who am I to set? What is the downside? But do they want to do it? To be fair, I don't think I ever said it shouldn't exist. I think I said I don't get it. strikes me as slightly absurd at this point there is definitely a case for it to not exist on an environmental level i suppose okay okay yeah okay i know we've lost you already we've lost you i know we've lost you that's why i didn't want to lead with it i didn't want to lead with that but there is there is a practical you know okay if you wanted to give real legit reasons but more so what i was saying to rachel was just like

I kind of take in the spectacle of, and it's not fashion week, it's fashion month. And it seems to just happen on an endlessly rolling. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Now that you've got all the extra ones, they squeeze in like Copenhagen and Miami and whatever else they've got on the radar. Hey, we're not going to slander Miami swim week on how long gone. First and foremost, that is not. That's off the table. We'll see you in Copenhagen as well, guys. Copenhagen. I'd rather go to Miami. I'm a big Miami head. Well, it's going a bit weird. Oh, I would. We all would. We all would rather go to Miami. But that's just not, you know. I don't know. People seem to love Copenhagen. But I went and I was, it was lovely. But I was like, I don't, everyone I know is like, I'd live there. And I'm like, oh, I don't think I would, personally. They live there because the lifestyle. I believe that the, like, social services are so good. that everybody can't believe. Yeah, now that you're with a child, they pay you to have babies there. Yeah, they pay you to have a kid. Oh, no, 100%. One of my friend's sisters had a child in Denmark, and it sounded really quite a spectacular experience. And I have a friend whose partner is Norwegian, and they get like... free they get a full year's full pay and then you get a child benefit that equates to like 300 pounds a month till the child's 18 i know i know that's the crazy part 18 come on incredible i can't fuck with that i mean at least you can leave the baby outside when you're running errands that is nice because it's so safe also apparently they have a crash at every gym a crash for the baby at every day yeah no i've seen it i i was in a gym in copenhagen and i looked over on the mat next to me and there was just a baby laying there and i was just like whoa whoa what the fuck what the fuck and then i just the mom like looked at me like chill out loser like what's the this is what we do here i know they that's not happening i mean we've obviously got a little bit more social infrastructure in the uk than in the us where i don't but i think there's no statutory requirement to give maternity leave in the us which is

slightly inhumane um but in the uk it's all been stripped back so it's it's not great however i did tell a friend recently that she asked me how much giving birth had cost me and i said zero pounds and she was like that blew our mind you're joking my sister had twins and they were um you know so they were like premature and they they were in the hospital for like a month or something and she got the bill and it was million dollars yeah it was a million dollars it's a million dollars yeah I was like, what? The reason I know that is because a friend of mine who lives in LA told me the same thing had happened to her neighbor. And she spent five days in like a postpartum clinic. And when she got out, her husband said, did you enjoy that? And she was like, oh yeah, it was really nice. And he was like, how nice was it? Was it $120,000 worth of nice? Because that's how much it got billed for. That's crazy. But that's why if I broke my arm, I would walk to the fucking hospital. I'm not going to get in the ambulance. Surely you've hooked yourself up with some nice health insurance by now, Chris. I have health insurance thanks to my wife. I did not have health insurance until six months ago. Wow. I mean, I know it's stupid. I know it's irresponsible and dumb. I just couldn't get with the principle of it. I just couldn't get myself over the hump. Well, it's wild. You have to pay $1,000 a month for the basic bitch. Yeah, $1,000 a month, you're still going to die if something happens. You might just not die on the side of the street. Exactly. You're still going to die. All this insurance on me, I'm still going to die, baby. I had a couple of like... accidents when i lived in the u.s and one of them i like um i passed out in a yoga studio this is cool this is right up your street this episode of how long gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the guardian stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down

The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. I hope it was at least hot yoga, not just regular. It was hot. It was hot. I came out. I came out. I had immense pain in the class. I came out. I passed out on the floor. Apparently, I was like seizing almost. So, you know, it wasn't just like heat exhaustion. It was like something.

And they waited for me to come around and then they were like, do you want us to call an ambulance? Because obviously, if I didn't have insurance and they called an ambulance, they could be throwing me down to bankruptcy for all they know. They could be putting me on a... Also, I think if something happens like that in public and the ambulance comes, the police come too and you kind of have to get in the ambulance. They won't really let you just be like, nah, it's all good. I'm straight. They're like, no, we came over here. You're getting in the fucking car. What country? Hey, yeah, the greatest country in the world. And then they took me to the A&E. What's it called? ER. Sorry, my translation skills are a bit rusty. The ER, we call that A&E in the UK. I went to the hospital. They put me on a bed. I was in agony. But they took them 10 hours to get around to me. They wouldn't give me so much as an ibuprofen. And the guy opposite me was handcuffed to his bed. He was just looking at me. I think I was the first woman he'd seen for a while, even in my slightly compromised state. I had to lie on this bed in agony for 10 hours with an inmate looking at me. He said, this chick is in pain, but the aloe got her looking good. I don't really give a fuck. He was just licking his lips. I'm not saying that arrogantly. That was my experience. Then four months later, I had another exercise-related. What the fuck? I know. Okay. Oh, it was a bad, it was a bad year. It was a bad year. You'll get this. I have to explain to some people. You understand it. I thought it was a Smith machine, but it was just a. Oh, hell no. Yeah. It's a weighted barbell that had been racked high. Yeah. So I went to like squat. I was going through like a, you know, like I thought I was like a Instagram, like weightlifting baddie. And I went to put it on my shoulder because I didn't brace myself. Yeah. We all do. Don't worry. Yeah. You guys, you guys understand that mood. I put it on my shoulders and I thought it was obviously attached to the machine like a Smith machine. And it wasn't. So I fell backwards, landed on my butt with like, I think it was 50 pounds, like, and fractured my spine. What? You fractured your spine at the Equinox? Fractured my spine. And then so then this was initially like four months after the first accident. And then I had to go through the whole shit again. Except this time it was really scary because they were like.

I was like, am I going to be... I thought I might be... The first thing I did was wiggle my toes because I was like, that's it. Game over. I've just broken my back. It was pretty bad. When booty day goes wrong... No, it really did. I can't believe I didn't sue the gym. That was a rookie mistake. I was like, come on. First thing in America, you have an accident in a public space. Even though it's clearly your fault, you could have sued them. That's how we operate. It doesn't need to be your fault to win in America. It doesn't matter. Settle out of court. Facts don't matter. I have a follow-up question. Were you filming yourself? Were you filming this workout? Because you could make some side money as a gym fail. This is an epic gym fail, if you ask me. I wish I had evidence because then I would have supported my case to sue. The gym actually called me for weeks afterwards because I think they couldn't believe I wasn't suing them. They were like, so we're just wondering what's going on. Did you get the flowers we sent, Phoebe? Did you get the nuts.com package we sent over? I regret that to this day. Membership is on us kind of for life. It's all good if you want to come back. No, the maddest thing, this is where I really had a case to sue. It wasn't even in a private. It wasn't a gym. that I paid a membership for. My friend lived in one of those bougie condo buildings down on the waterfront in Williamsburg, and I'd just gone over to her apartment and just was using her gym. I'm not even sure I signed a release form. Oh, you could have definitely. You could have put this damn baby through college if you would have used your head. Listen, the fact that it's six years later and I'm still talking about it. You're hanging on to something, and I understand, but that's pretty true. Yeah, but anyway, again, I went to the hospital, and they wouldn't give me so much as a paracetamol until I'd filled up. I mean, I was like, shh. shaking in pain and then they're like trying to upsell me that whole experience I have to say was it made me you know question some aspects of my experience of living in the United States I think when stuff like that when stuff like that happens in New York it feels very extreme

Like, it feels much harder, I feel like, than it does other places. It was pretty wild. It was pretty wild. It's just gnarly. Everything's gnarly. Like, the guy in the hospital, everything's fucked up. Everything's gross. Everybody's mean. Hostels weren't cute. Yeah. A rat runs across the floor. In NYC, baby, everything's gnarly. Yeah. Everything's gnarly. Pretty rough. But anyway, I live to tell the tale. Yeah, that's true. I know. So you're fully healed now? You're okay? You're back on the squat rack? I've definitely had like three years of back pain issues. Still do, actually. But again, maybe I should reopen this case. I feel like I've still got one, perhaps. But I'm all right. I'm fine. Yeah, I'm fine. Any how-long-gone lawyers out there? You don't pay unless we win the case, okay? That's how we get this. There are plenty of ambulance chasers that listen to this podcast, that's for sure. Yeah, I don't understand the American healthcare system. I don't think anyone does. No one does. The NHS is great. We love those guys over there. God bless the NHS. Clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, clang. I had a question about your podcast. Why don't you have any male guests on? Well, I've had two. And it wasn't deliberate, but it's kind of like how you guys don't really have that many female guests. You don't. You don't have that many. That is not true. Well, I know I'm here, so I'm contradicting myself. Okay, so you have 1% male guests, and I would say we're close to 50-50 male-female. Are you? Okay. Yeah, honestly, probably. It might not feel like that because we talk so much, but the reality is that, yes, we do have several. female guests as well as non-binary it's it's just because um you know my podcast compared to yours is still somewhat in its infancy and um i i just know loads of cool interesting smart women and i I don't know as many cool interesting spots. So it's not by design. Wow. It's not by design. Okay. I just came out and said it. So you don't know any fellas that you want to chat to? That's pretty telling about you more than the male sex. No, I mean, I know some cool men, but maybe not. I don't know. I am conscious of this, by the way. I am conscious of the fact that I don't have hardly any men on it. Yeah, I had two very different men, and then I sort of just gave up, and I was like... Hold on. Were they...

Are they straight? I don't know. I couldn't possibly comment. Didn't ask. It's not my opening question. I don't know. I don't know. I would assume they're both straight, but in this day and age, you don't. No, they're probably bi. They're probably bi. I get it. Speculating on another person's sexuality is really fun. You're not going to catch me out here again. That's fun. That's what we do all the time. I know, but you guys don't care. I still care. Well, we like to give a voice to a lot of male queer people. So, yeah, we're happy to sort of wear that on our sleeve, whereas you might be a little more hesitant because I don't know what you're afraid of, but I want you to come out. Yeah, the demographics of my podcast, they're not balanced enough. I would acknowledge that. But, again, you guys, you've done like a million episodes now. No, we've done a lot. We've done a lot. But, no, I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's bad at all. It's no big deal. Is more like, was that on part? Like, was that, is that what the show is? It wasn't intended to be, but I do recognize now that it has ended. It's sort of skewed that way. I think it's, I think it's kind of smart, honestly. I mean, I don't think like that's that common. Like I said, again, I, I just know a lot of really like cool, interesting women who I think do interesting things and have interesting things to say, or if I don't know them personally, they're sort of like in my extended network and, you know. it's just easier to not that, not that I choose my guests based on ease of access, but when you're starting a podcast, obviously you start with like, yeah, definitely the people in the immediate network around you. And I would say the immediate network around me is pretty, pretty solid, high, good quality. Um, so yeah, that's why I've started, but, and then you eventually work your way down to the men and stuff like that. Eventually you'll get to the gutter where we reside. Bottom of the barrel. Do you get a lot of, um, like, Apple podcast comments of people saying, where are the fellas at? Where are the fellas at? This is bullshit. You only have women guests on this podcast. Some bullshit. Does stuff like that happen? How many times a week does that happen? I don't think I've hit the metrics where I have that many people ready to hate on me and criticize me. You're lucky. Do you care, though? I mean, do you have haters? Yeah, of course. You don't care. That's all we have. That's all we have. No, that's not true. No, it's not. Yeah.

it's no you have you've got fans yeah i mean i think we have people that listen i don't know if i would call them fans i think there's a that's two separate things you know they're like hate listening yeah for sure or just like they they i think everybody listens to what they listen to for different reasons like i only listen to like one or two podcasts one is because it's about hollywood and i really i feel like i'm learning something and one is joe bud joe budden because it's dumb right and i laugh So you don't hate to listen to any podcasts? No, no, but I also don't think of myself as a fan of those shows. I think of myself as a listener. I feel like the word wording kind of matters in that way, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's the same thing. What about you, Jason? Are you lurking on some podcasts you hate? No, I can't. I mean, I'll hate listen to The Daily every once in a while, stuff like that. No, I mean, not really. I immediately get a podcast ick if I'm listening to someone having a conversation or it's just so clearly awful. I will just turn it off, never go back again. And the amount of podcasts that don't give me the ick is very low, which is what makes you start your own. Oh, yeah, no. so many like nasal male hosts whoa that's literally me neither of you guys are particularly nasal which is why i think i've lasted so long with your podcast because really i find it just bizarre how many like especially american podcasts are hosted by like above average nasal voices well i think that's i think that becomes kind of not a trend is maybe the wrong word but it's like people listen for that a little bit because that's what they're used to like whatever At the beginning, if it sounded like NPR, that's what people wanted to hear. It was Ira Glass. It was Ira Glass. People would just try to sound like Ira Glass. I think that kind of shit continues with however it works, where people just are mimicking what they think is cool, and then it becomes a bigger term. To put it in your terms, everyone tries to sound like Ira Glass is our skepta, if you don't know about that. That's a perfect comparison.

Skepta. Yeah. 100% in the same cultural category. The Linka. Best of both worlds. It kind of rhymes, too. Give me a beat, Phoebe. Come on. Give me a beat. I mean, I don't even know what you're talking about with that. I can't even follow it. I don't know how to follow it up. This is just a brain storm sesh, man. We're just in the booth vibing. That's all. What does that even mean? Iron Skepta. There's nothing to follow. There's nothing to follow. There's nothing to follow. But to your point about hate listening, I don't think you can really hate listen to more than maybe one episode of a podcast because you can hate lurk someone's Instagram page or whatever, not that I stoop so low. Oh, you've never done that. No, I know that about you. Never, never, never. But at a certain point, who's the joke on? Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, like who's the loser who's sitting there in the dark looking at a stranger's Instagram page? But I think when it comes to listening to, you know, like, having someone in your ears is so intimate. And if, like, if you find that person jarring, it really is on you if you're listening to more than, like, three minutes of that shit. I don't want Ezra Klein living rent-free in my mind. He's quite a good interviewer, though, no? Nah. I don't know. Never listen to him. I mean, all those guys are just boring. It's not like they're not good at it. It's like they're quite technically sound. And I don't mean technically from, like, a... audio perspective technical from like and i've done my research i have these yeah thought out questions it's just not fun to listen to and i just don't dull but that's dollars dishwater but that but that's exactly but that's what i'm saying but but they worked very hard on this episode yeah it's like highly produced highly researched but it's like so dolls to listen to but this is what i'm saying this is the whole this is this is what i forgot to add the seasoning a lot of people a lot of people listen to podcasts because they they're trying to like optimize their time and they want to get like smarter quote unquote and i think there's a that's that's one of the biggest genres of of podcasting is like whether it's biohacking i listen to ted talks at 1.5 acts yeah yeah i'll have phases where i just like you know like i just

discovered and discover huberman like it's the biggest podcast but like i found it and i like listened to it for like three weeks and then i was like i don't care i don't you know you know who needs this much information about your sleep process or whatever but i think this is i think this is where we are as a society where it's like i think the optimization stuff has been fed to us that that's how we have like you're either a person who all you talk about is digital detoxing and like unplugging yeah or you're like i am fucking optimized i'm using every second of my day to better myself physically and mentally and there's there's there's podcasts for all that stuff you know i think if you're going to listen to an optimization podcast it needs to be less than 15 minutes like i'm down for like a quick hit of information but i want it to be concise three hours of like diatribe on something is way too much for me i agree i agree i agree and that's why i think not to like plug my podcast i try and like bridge the gap between i want some information in there i'm trying to give a bit of cultural information but really i'm just trying to have a chat with people and i i think at this point in podcasting given the fact there's like millions out there it's actually astounding for me anyway and it sounds like for you guys as well how few i actually enjoy listening to like yeah for sure the bar is low and that's what me and rachel talked about rachel and i talked about a little bit because she's a great podcast uh she's a great interviewer sorry and we were sort of talking about the fact that there's not that many great interviewers out there on you know present company excluded you guys do great interviews she asked people she asked she asked people fucked up questions that that and it's good like she'll ask like how much money you make kind of shit it's sick like or like how did you start Like, point blank, how did you start your – like, where did you get the money to start your business? You know, which if, like, if it's a fashion podcast, like, those are the questions that aren't getting asked. You know what I mean? Like, beyond – she had, like, a viral thing with Mos Def and all that shit. But, like, the Todd Snyder one, she's just like, how did you – and he's like, oh, yeah, I got – I sold this thing for two million bucks. I took that. And I was like, oh, that's actually the shit people want to hear because I don't think that – no, no, like –

newspaper or magazine can ask those questions. I think that's part of the reason podcasting has become so popular is because it's so much more conversational and you get more out of people because they're not in their heads in the same way they are if they're sitting down with a reporter from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times. It's a different way of talking. It's a different way of talking. Absolutely. And you could quickly tell if this person is a bozo or not when you're listening to them speak versus pre- planned questions and written answers and things like that yeah yeah i mean that's the only issue with the podcast that you can skim read an article to see if there's any gems in it but you can't skim listen to a podcast to get the headlines so you either have to like commit or you have to accept that you might miss the like gems of knowledge that are hidden in that podcast we talk about that we talk about that all the time that's what's so crazy it's like the commitment is so much like i can read a story, even a long story, Jason, like that reservation story in the New Yorker, I can read that in 15, 20 minutes, you know, and like get it, like read it, like I, you know, get everything where the podcast, I mean, you got to listen for an hour, but often more because people like to make long podcasts, but like you have to listen. for a long time, you know, and it is a big commitment. But I think that's why people do it while they're doing other things, so it doesn't feel like as big of a commitment. But again, this is why I don't understand why you'd want to listen to three hours on a podcast full of scientific information that you could find the headlines on in like one minute of Googling it. Because he's hot. Because he's hot. He has tattoos. It's true. And he has a good voice. He's tatted up. No, because it's... I've talked about it before in the podcast where, you know, like we don't... Now that we have porn and Instagram and all these things, we're sort of okay with the substitute version of the real thing. And we are okay with feeling smart by hearing a smart guy talk about smart things in big words for three hours. We feel as if we've become smarter through osmosis just by listening to smart people say big words for an extended period of time. Absolutely. And that sort of satisfies the brain. Yeah, we're like very intellectually passive.

like people now i don't think there's there's not much sort of like excavation and research going on it's just whatever the algorithm throws at you or whatever gets fed into your ears or you know there's a million variations on it but i don't i think that like the number of people who actually go on the hunt for sort of personally sourced information or they try and hunt down stuff from a variety of sources is very small now. So you're like, well, okay, if Huberman says it, it must be accurate. Fine. Next. Good enough for me. 100%. That's my expert. Critical thinking has gone out the window. Let's just say something unoriginal, but it's true. We need more excavators. Excavators. Excavator. Phoebe, on the last episode of your podcast, you had a guest on, and you were discussing something that I wasn't exactly sure what it meant. Cyberfeminism. Yeah, you and me, but I mean, not that she didn't explain it beautifully. You're like, I ain't never heard of that shit neither when she brought it up. I ain't never heard of that. I'm a feminist and I've cybered, but I don't think it means those things. have you ever felt in over your head i feel like you haven't because you don't operate from that place but like women have imposter syndrome so it's much easier for them to feel in over their heads do you ever feel in over your head with men also have imposter syndromes and men can also be guests on podcasts just for a future but have you ever done an interview for this podcast where you've been like shit i think because what my point being when i spoke to mindy absolutely absolutely i was like this woman is much smarter than me and i don't know if i can like fully keep up like she likes lectures at yale and yeah but But also it's our jobs as people who are not Yale lecturers to sort of, you know, we can still impress them by taking their information and spitting it back to them in a more distilled way that's easier to absorb by a mass audience. And they need you as much as you need them. And, you know, as long as you're not just overwhelmed like I'm a fucking idiot, then nobody wants to hear that. Very smart, scientific people like that are also losers and dorks, and you can make them feel inferior in your own way. I'm sure she's fat. I hear your point. I was thinking about that just today, actually. I think given that so many people intake information passively now, I've noticed with the work that I do that there is actually a massive, there's a craving for people who they know that they're having a very superficial media diet or information diet. It doesn't feel good.

Even if you're not like a super intellect, you don't want your brain to like be running on like, you know, the intellectual equivalent of junk food. But then there's a big barrier to entry to sort of any sort of highbrow intellectual circles or whatever. And there's a bigger role, I think, now for people who exist in the middle where they can, as you say, sort of like synthesize a super smart people's information and feed it to people who maybe don't have as much time to like read or research, whatever it is. So, yeah, I shouldn't be too self-flagellating, but I was struggling a little bit to keep up Mindy. She's a very smart woman. Yeah, but look, that sharpens your tools, you know? It does. It did. I was like, okay. Yeah, I was trying to do my research for that. You couldn't pay me $100 to talk to somebody like that, but I understand why. You have some super smart people on this podcast, I know. Yeah, but we don't have... that kind of smart person right i think we have a different kind of smart person like i don't think that i i have so little interest in science and shit like that like i never i have no i hate space i don't want to talk about any of that shit it's boring and okay even like health like no huberman for you i i find that stuff just like mind numbing. I have a personal trainer. If I wanted to hire a nutritionist, I'll hire a nutritionist. I'm not going to listen to some guy talk. I feel like some of that stuff needs to be specific to the person. You know what I mean? It can't all be super general. I just have no interest in stuff like that. I see why it grips people because everyone wants to improve. I want to improve. Don't get me wrong. I need to improve in several areas. Jason lets me know all the time. Seems like someone who's on a self-improvement mission. But what about them? What about the sort of intellectual, like cultural equivalent of that kind of information? Are you trying to listen to people or do you want to learn more about literature or art that you may not be up on or not so much? Well, no. I mean I just think that's what reading is for. I've seen enough art. Chase is shaking his head. He's like, no, you're good. I've seen it. I've seen it all. I think there's – I just like – I think that reading is – You're good on art for the rest of your life. People just really don't like to read. It's like running. Like people just really hate it.

They'll do anything to not run to get cardio. Shit, there goes my career. A lot of us suffer from attention deficit disorders, you guys, and it's getting worse every year. Hopefully TikTok is banned and that'll help a little bit, but it's very easy to do something other than sitting down and quietly reading a book. I'm not saying I'm even that good at it. I do my best, but I've gotten progressively worse as... the distractions have gotten progressively stronger. Yeah. But I just mean there's certain topics like I don't – I can't imagine learning about art from anything but a book or a person. Right. Do you know what I mean? Like that's just – I can't imagine that. What about a person on TikTok? That's my point. I mean I guess – it's better for the world that that information is being disseminated in an easy-to-digest way. I just don't need to participate. You know what I mean? It's good for everyone. But then you could definitely counter that, couldn't you? Like, is it better for the world? Like, is that sort of style of information sharing? I totally hear you, and I'm just playing devil's advocate, but, you know, is it a good thing that, say, like BookTok, for example, like I have very mixed feelings on that. On one level, obviously, it's amazing that it... has you know it's really powerful and influential and it's definitely got a lot of people it sells books it sells books but it sells trash books like trash books yeah airport like but i but i think but i think that thing i think that airport trash books still put money in the publisher's pockets which then gets distributed as they see you know like if if there's a if there's a hit you know fucking beach read that they make 10 million bucks on you know i think that that money get spread out in a way that will trickle down eventually to something more interesting. That'll fund the Them Jeans book advance for my future failed literature. Yeah, exactly. Any day now. Exactly. But that's, I mean... Publishing is a whole other thing because no books sell, and it's kind of widely known that no books sell unless you're on Reese Witherspoon's book club or Kaia Gerber's book club. It ain't going to move. Unless you have a podcast or a pre-existing network of customers who will buy your books. The idea of writing a hit novel as a first time or whatever, hit doesn't mean sales or money. It only means critical.

response yeah which is cool but like i i need some money i you know what i mean like writing a book is hard fuck absolutely really definitely extremely hard like maybe the hardest maybe the hardest thing you can do i'm well i wouldn't go that far No, I mean... As a creative pursuit. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's definitely... Okay, shitting on a book or shitting on a kid, what's harder? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I don't know. Giving birth is... This is not that podcast. I'll save it for Huberman. Birthing a book or birthing a child, I should say. I think the thing about writing that's weird is that it's the only creative... art form where every most people who do it seem to fucking hate it you know or find it extremely tortured like you don't hear musicians saying how much they hate being in the studio or you know fine artists saying how much they hate painting like no they love it they're in the zone whereas every single writer you know myself included is like oh the worst they love to complain about it i i but i think it's also because but it doesn't feel like a trend per se but it's like widely accepted that that's how everyone feels So I think that everyone feels more comfortable expressing that, whereas maybe an artist. It's so curious, though, don't you? I agree. I mean, I say this as someone. Why is that? Like, why? Why is it just that writers are like extra money people? It's because writers use Twitter more. That's what it really comes down to, I think. Don't you think writers, maybe they haven't been complaining about writing since the beginning of time, but definitely predated social media, like writers writing books about how hard it is to write and how you can... Oh, writing's so hard. Here's a book about how to do it if you really want, like as if anyone's forcing you to write. For me, my personal conclusion I drew, even though I do still write a bit, I used to write a lot. And I was like, maybe this is like not... for me, not maybe not as my primary thing. I kind of got sick of myself finding it so like arduous because it's clearly not like to sit in a room with your little laptop, like tapping away. It's not, it's not, you know, you're not cleaning toilets. So I kind of was like, well, I'm annoying myself. I'm going to sit back from it a little bit. Have you, have you ever tried to alter your mind with a substance to make writing more fun, interesting or enjoyable? Not enough. Like I didn't, I've like,

briefly you know i've had a couple of times i've written while i'm stoned but i'm not a big weed person or i haven't maybe found the right strain like that's what people always say to me people just haven't found the right strain okay wow imagine if i invent a weed and name it damn jason jason i think after this podcast wraps up Can you trademark a weed strain? I hope. I don't know. I hope no one from Cookies is listening. Chris is on it already. I'm going to bleep it when I put it out, when I edit this episode. I have been talking to some people in the marijuana space. I think it's a fun idea. I mean, honestly, if you could nail the strain. I don't know anything about weed, really. But if you could nail the strain of weed that... really like helps a writer get in the zone because in answer to your question i have tried to write stone and like i don't know it kind of it definitely helps with the attention you can focus a little more the quality for me personally mixed but again i didn't try many times you guys should try cocaine you should try cocaine because it makes you talk so much that it feels like words would just fall out of you if they're really high quality words aren't they yeah yeah the words are not great i found that uh like the first time like i started a sub stack recently and I started it initially a few years ago when I took mushrooms and wrote a review of the Travis Scott cheeseburger at McDonald's. Oh, yeah, of course. Your sub stack. I'm somehow on the mailing list. I don't know how I signed up for it, but I love that data capture. I did not. I've never added anybody to it. Thank you for subscribing. I do appreciate it. Maybe I subscribe to the old one. Yeah, it's the same one. Yeah, it's the same thing. It's the same one. Okay, all right. You didn't. Sorry. Sorry, that was rude of me. I enjoyed it. I didn't unsubscribe, Jason. I was reading it. I was really intrigued by your... Here's another business idea for you because I thought this sounded great. Your orange juice mix with all the different blends of citrus. Why not blend? That feels like you need to be blending that and shipping it out to Air One and selling it for $18. What is it? 500 mils for $18 in Air One? Get to blend it. I think the crux of what I was trying to say is writing

on drugs and editing sober you can you can land on a sweet space and you can come back with a sober mind the next day and be like that was sick that was amazing i would have never said that soberly this this and this are awful because i was too high a fucked up tangent but you know creating and then editing is is the sweet spot how are you is your subset exclusively written while high no it is not but i try to i try to it's more i mean that way i just have more fun yeah I don't really have time nowadays. The schedule has become much more hectic. It might help you become more efficient because no writer is slower than a sober writer. That's my experience anyway. Welcome to my life, baby. I think it's probably one of the few pursuits where actually we could speed you up. Everything sucks for me. We were laughing because Chris is a sober writer. Imagine being a sober writer. You've got your exercise. high no yeah you got your runners yeah the runners high wears off usually by noon though and then there's kind of a lot of day left you know to accomplish my little task i do be hitting the caffeine pretty hard and that caffeine is a hell of a drug no that's just that's that's fine for me that's that's fine you could um every now and then i used to quit caffeine for three weeks just for the day when i reintroduced it when was the last time you had a break from caffeine Never, never. And if I did, I couldn't. There's no way. It's all I have left. There's no way. No, I'm just saying only have a break to reintroduce because that day when you first. No, I understand. Look, I'm a drug addict. I know what you mean by like, oh, I'm going to take some time off. You understand how this works. Yeah, I understand how it works. I'm very clear. Every time I go out of the country and I don't bring drugs, that's when it happens. Right, right, right. Sorry, I'm a bit late. I'm not the world's biggest drug taker, as you can probably tell. Me trying to explain how withdrawal works. That's all good. That's very not British of you. Oh, no, I know. Oh, I know. Even the eels in the Thames are on coke in London. Do you know about that? No. Do you know about that? No, no. No, literally, the eels in the Thames, our river, have traces of cocaine in their bodies. Damn. That's how coked up London is. As if they needed to get more slippery, right? That's so cool. You know? They're just wilding out in there. I'm definitely an anomaly that I haven't had a...

pretty severe cocaine problem at some point in my life. You don't really strike me as like a, I'm going down to the pub type chick, even in your heyday. Oh, I love that you've read that correctly about me. I'm not a pub girl. And I think it's one of the reasons I struggle to, well, yeah, again, I need to turn it down. I love London. It's an amazing city. No, it is. It's my hometown. I'm very proud of it. It's incredible. The music seems phenomenal, et cetera. I think one of the reasons I've never really got on with it culturally is because I don't like the pub. You're joking. I think that's a real thing. I think that's very real. What the fuck's wrong with you? It's an issue. It's an issue because it's really, like, I respect the pub as a concept. I respect the pub as a third space. The third space. A public house. Okay, I don't know if you know, guys, but a pub is short for a public house. Actual public house. No, I love the idea that there's this accessible communal place that isn't too expensive and everyone can go and, you know, blah, blah, blah. But for me, No. I'm with you. Okay, where is your third space? A matcha shop? The library, of course. Oh, wow. No, socially, I've struggled with that a little bit in London, I have to say, because I think it's less of a bar-y city than New York. I think in New York, there's so many great bars where you can just go and have a quick drink and they're open until really late. Not to mention all the insane amount of restaurants. So in London, I'm not quite... Where do we go? You're not queuing up to have a roast at the Devonshire? Come on. I don't understand. I thought that's what everybody did. It kind of is what people are doing here, I guess. I guess that's what people are doing. Have a pud at the Stratford Arms? If you're going to go and get a roast, probably that's a good place to go because there's so many mediocre roasts in London. Maybe that's a future sub-stack for you, Jason, if you come back here. I'll be there in June. They cost £27 or upwards, which is like, what, $35? And they're usually quite shit, in my opinion. Well, to be fair, roast as a concept is a bit shit. So I don't really think that... That's all we've got, Chris. Cocaine and roasts.

I don't like, yeah, I'm all set. I'm all set. I mean, I don't eat meat, so a roast ain't for me, but I just don't. I actually had a nut roast roast on Sunday. I'm all good. I ain't doing that. A nut? Yeah. A nut loaf. A nut loaf. Is that what it's called? A nut roast? A nut loaf. What's that thing called? Like nuts. It's like nuts. I mean, like a honey-roasted peanut. Yeah. Do you mean like it's a vegan or a vegetarian? Nut loaf. Not roast. Loaf made out of nuts and other things. I'm quite sleep-deprived at the moment, so forgive me. I should have said that at the top of the conversation. I've been mixing up my words recently. Nut loaf, roast. A cheeky bit of vegan gravy? Yeah, I'm not even vegan. No one wants that. No one wants cheeky vegan gravy. No, I'm not even vegan as well. I really played myself. My boyfriend got a lamb shank. That was a much better move. Oh, babe? Babe, can I have a bite? Oh, that was literally me. That was literally me. He went for the lamb and clam surf and turf. He did the lamb, which was a way better move. And then I was just over there with my gloopy nut roast. Nut loaf roast. Gloopy nut on that note. Phoebe, thanks for joining us on How Long Gone. Thanks so much for having me, guys. It's a pleasure. It's good to see behind the scenes. I've learned a lot about cyberfeminism. Thanks to you. You have to speak to Mindy for that. But yeah, thanks for having me, guys. I will. Enjoy. I hope the weather's nice wherever you are today. You can listen to Deep Read wherever you listen to podcasts. And the public-library.online is the website. Thanks, Chris. Go click and surf. Of course, my pleasure. That's a cool URL. It's a very cool URL. And congrats on the baby. Yeah, congrats. Thank you. Congrats on the baby. Yeah. Thank you. Congrats on the baby. All right. Have a good day. Don't sound so excited. All right. You want to give a shout out to your baby? Bye. We'll see you later. Nightless.