475. - The National

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Chris Black coming to you live from another rainy day in Los Angeles. Them Jeans is currently He's under medical watch, and I just want to make sure. I'm not a doctor. I'm not even a healer or a Reiki specialist, but I just want to make sure you're doing okay. I heard some alarming reports from the public hotel this morning. Have we recovered? Hell no. Okay, so you did DJ. Allison Romans, sweet enough, her dessert book came out on Tuesday. You DJed the party last night in the cursed neighborhood of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, at a venue owned by enemy of the state, James Murphy. Do you think something nefarious has happened, or do you think that this is just kind of God's plan? What happened? What's going on? Tell everybody what the deal is. I had some technical... I didn't have technical difficulties. It's hard to explain, but I was DJing. It was a great party. Allison threw an amazing event. Great crowd. Open bar. She made all these desserts and sweets from her cookbook that just came out. It's a real who's who of the culinary world, as well as every gay person in Brooklyn that has money. All right.

So Rich Gaze and all the back-of-house staff that could lose 15 pounds and then Andy Baragani looking fucking hot being himself with the blonde hair. It's like I was there with that description. It's like I was there. Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Little Andy was snatched. It was all happening. If Hunter didn't take a picture of you, you weren't doing it right. But... The problem for me as the entertainment for the night, I was DJing on equipment that was not what I'm used to. And it's a little hard to explain to a lay person because it doesn't sound like that big of a deal. And it's not really that big of a deal on paper, but it was a perfect storm of things that made me just a little... aggravated or uneasy or just it was difficult for me so you're telling me that audiophile um and known vinyl lover james murphy stocked his club night moves with i don't know clunky vintage rotary equipment that could make a modern a modern dj like yourself have have issues playing uh you know passion fruit well Yeah, he's like, this mixer is designed for passion pit, not passion fruit. You got the wrong passion, bitch. Got him. Yeah, I got the wrong passion. So basically, it was the juxtaposition of, like you said, a rotary mixer, and a lot of people don't know what that is, but basically, long story short, it's just a very... expensive audio file like handmade in in somewhere in switzerland or whatever by some a guy in berlin or something like that you know it's a very expensive it's like a five thousand dollar mixer like super designer boutique but but i want to be clear with this this handmade mixer no one like needs this this is this is just a preference in like i want to stunt yeah yeah the same way you could listen to sonos like a normal person but some people spend five grand on the ohas right it's a thing you either want or you don't want yeah it's just one of those like for when you need to take it one step further and and there are a lot of amazing djs who are able to use it in a way that is the same way just to be clear the same way where it's like

I'm just used to driving a Tesla every day, and then Davide comes over with one of his Fiats from 1938, and you're like, yeah, I could feel the road really well, but also I'm going to die. Yeah, sure. So it was kind of like that. So I've never used this mixer. It's literally just a wooden box that has 38 knobs on it. That you just turn. There's no real. Oh, you're supposed to. So it's not labeled. So it's supposed to be for the heads. But obviously you're going to need a little time to acclimate with something like that. Yeah. Well, if I was like DJing, you know, the cat, the cat bar in Tokyo and three in the afternoon, that's one thing. But like it's a pitch black nightclub with no lights going on. And it's just like, here's here's 37 knobs that you can turn and figure it out. while you're DJing for a bunch of people who are yelling at you to play even gayer music. Yeah, and that's tough for you, because I know you brought USB sticks full of Kylie Minogue for this crowd. Honey, that's my sweet spot. I'm sure you found your seat. The issue with that is, in addition, is they take this $5,000 mixer, and then... They have turntables that you would use, but then if you want to use, you know, if you want to play off the USB like I do, they have these two. I think it's an issue of real estate. There's not enough really room for what I'm used to using. So they pair this, you know, expensive piece of designer mixer equipment with like the two CDJs that you get. when you're like a 15 year old and you ask your parents for a setup okay okay so you're saying like more more toy than tool you're saying the high low mix went wrong and dj them jeans suffered do you think It just scrambled my wires. Do you think any of these lime cooks or gay guys could tell the difference? Or do you think they had enough champagne and delicious vittles? I was the only one. I was my own worst enemy, to quote Lit. I was the only one who was really, you know, classic Virgo neuroticisms going on. Everyone else was having a great time.

But, you know, I'm a perfectionist when I'm working. Oh, God. Okay. Relax, big dog. Relax. Okay. Only when I'm DJing and making a sandwich am I an actual perfectionist, not in any other parts of life where it could be beneficial towards the future of yourself. But it really got to me, and I was upset, and I was trying to hold it together, but it really, like, affected me. frustrated because i wasn't able to do you know even half of a good of a job as i really wanted to sure but again if i was handicapped if the dance floor is wilding and none the wiser it's still a victory for tj and more so a victory for um chef allison roman i would guess yeah no yeah it's a it's a victory for everyone except for my bruised dj ego but i will be okay with it but the the issue is i was i woke up this morning to a nosebleed like that was my alarm clock like 7 a.m. okay so blood's coming out of my face okay okay so you text me all alarmed you got a nosebleed my first question obviously is like is the coke that bad you know what i mean like that's where my head goes you claim last night was the only night on this trip where i didn't do drugs I just want to say this because you claim that you didn't do drugs, and I just want to make sure you're doing that on the record here on How Long Gone. You're saying this nosebleed is because – My hand to God. Okay, so you've never gotten nosebleeds in your life, and conveniently – No, no, no. My whole childhood growing up, I got nosebleeds a lot. But they were kind of allergy-related. And I believe this one was a dehydration-related nosebleed. Okay, so you've been having so many Negronis. He leaking. The Negronis, the cigs, the weather. It's cold, so the heater's on everywhere you go. It's sucking all the moist air.

I didn't bring my fucking humidifier. It's tough. First mistake is an influence. You always travel with your molecule. But I guess I'm a little surprised. It was either that or the product code. I know you're bitch made, and you've proven that time and time again, and it's something I've come to love about you, but this feels extreme to me. This feels extreme. And I knew. I'll let you finish your thought unless you're done. Oh, are you finished or are you done? I just didn't know if you were going to sprinkle in a little Maldon on that. No, no, no. I'm done. No, no, I'm done. Please, please. Okay, well, I knew as blood was gushing from my skull, mouth and nose, I knew that I had the presence of mind, the fourth foresight, I was thinking like Scottie Pippen on the court. I knew this was going to happen. So I did take photos of the situation. So I do have the. bloody receipts you have proof because you knew that i might doubt the validity of your claims yeah of course because it's not the first time that's happened the first time i've look i am not a woman in your life i respect when a man gets sick or doesn't feel well i don't i i just think that it's funny because it knows a nosebleed is kind of let's be honest it's a little bit of a you know Something that happens to a child. Yeah, that's right. Or someone who did too much Coke. And one of those things is something that could happen to you. And since I'm so adamantly clear on how I did not do Coke, the only other option is that I am a child. Yeah, and I've seen you. You're pretty big. You know what I mean? You don't look like a child. It's confusing to me. And since you know how. Old I am. I do have a scan of your driver's license and passport on my computer as the tour manager. You do. I do have proof of your age. And now you're saying you have proof of your nosebleed. And you claim you didn't do coke. So it's just something's not adding up. But that's not really, I guess. Okay. Well, then that being said, would you like to see a photo? No, I'm good. I believe you. I just think I believe you. And I think you did have a nosebleed. I guess I've never had a nosebleed.

So I'm not really sure if it's maybe as, um, debilitating as you claim that that's all I'm saying. Yeah. I understand that. I understand it. But I, it was less of like, I didn't even feel hungover. I didn't have a headache. Um, but what I did have was like, once you see that amount of blood leaving your body, it turns you like, it makes you sick. You know what I mean? It's like a, yeah, yeah. It's like a crazy response. And basically. Carolyn was at a meeting, and I called her, and I was like, you gotta... I basically, you know in a movie when somebody accidentally kills somebody, and they're like, alright, I'll call my guy. And some guy, a character actor, gets on the phone, and he's like, alright. Don't move the body. And then he shows up. He's got garbage bags, duct tape, bleach, gloves, all that shit. I more or less did the pussy version of that. I was like, I need liquid IV. But I really did... You asked her to hit the high-end bodega for some sugar to kind of get your blood right and get you feeling good. But I was, and she was kind of laughing at me on the phone because she knew that I had a bloody nose. And she's like, all right, well, good luck with your little thingy. I'm going to go to my meeting now. And I was like, and then I called her using that same bitchy voice, and she's laughing at me. walking down fucking house dinner or whatever like yeah i'll go to whole foods and get you get used to your fucking blah blah whatever and she walks in and she's like it looks like you killed a hooker in this bathroom so so you couldn't just what's the problem you don't know how to fucking plug a nose like you couldn't get some toilet tissue i'm sure they have that oh i'm i'm on roll number three of toilet paper two boxes of tissues seven towels but are we done now do you think it's done

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I wish I could say. I don't fucking know, man. I don't know. I don't fucking know. I wish I could say, but this has been an odd intro to the podcast episode today that you're going to listen to. Truly has nothing to do with me bleaching the. the bathroom tiles of a hotel room thank god uh we did we were able to talk to uh matt berenger you know him as the the singer of the national uh a chris favorite uh since a band that weirdly i like didn't listen to and then um jake davis actually was a huge fan and played it for me years and years ago And I was like, I got it. It finally clicked for me. Much like my nosebleeds, it came to you later in life. It came to me later in life. High Violet is obviously kind of the, in my opinion, you know, the piece de resistance. But they're all pretty fucking good. And the new one is no different. First two pages of Frankenstein comes out April 28th. And it is, yeah, it's good. the wild choice of living in Venice. Um, and also some of his kind of recent lyrical explorations where he talks about mountain Valley, spring water, uh, the Afghan wigs, um, his chick working at Condé Nast, relatable stuff. You know what I mean? Like, and also for, all of our sweet tooth listeners the first 10 15 is just about candy that's right yeah just about different candies that we like to eat if you can imagine this guy loves a high chew you know he's seen the world but yeah anyway so we're making good use of our precious time with a singer of one of the most famous bands in the world to see yeah what do you think about red vines no but but matt is matt's one of those great guys who's like known for being kind of like dark like lyrically and just like the overall vibe of the band is a little bit like not in a goth way in more of like in touch with your emotions way you know i'm so depressed i'm gonna come yeah exactly exactly so for him to be for him to be uh a lot more kind of uh

down to clown and just unserious jovial jovial is is refreshing and that's like it's nice when you meet someone like this and talk to someone like this you've been a fan of for so long and they actually are They live up to it, and they're able to kind of show different sides of themselves. Yeah, it's very – imagine if there was a meme. I'm using AI to create a meme right now, and it's David Duchovny in X-Files, Dave Duchovny in Californication, and that's the sort of duality of man that we're operating with here. Exactly, exactly. All right, so let's talk to Matt, and we'll be – I guess that's it. Yeah, we'll talk to Matt. How long gone, bitch? Oh, tickets on sale. All the shows, 10 a.m. local time today. We are going to Philadelphia. We're going to Chicago. We're going to Atlanta. We're doing Just Like Heaven Festival with our Golden Voice family in beautiful Pasadena. And then we are going to London in August. And don't ask us about other shows. We announce them in waves like professionals, you fucking bozos. So, anyway, get your tickets. They will go fast, hopefully, in all these tertiary markets. And if you live in Chicago, don't show up at the show The Knife, because I don't play that game. I'm fists only. One swing with a bat, that's all we allow. Yeah, opening day joke from Jason. I knew you had to squeeze one in. All right, thank you guys for listening. Pray for me. My blood type is B positive. B-Positive is Jason's outlook on life as well as his blood type. That's the name of my therapist Venmo account. No, that's your new kind of mental health-focused streetwear brand. No, that's my mental health B-Pollen gummy branch. I'm looking to secure $4 million just to get the manufacturing up the ground. We're in our seed round, and it's not going great, but we're working on it. We killed a lot of bees. It's mostly for legal fees at this point. All right. How Long Gone? Enjoy the conversation with Matt. Bye. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky.

And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know. have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf. TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Are you a cat guy? I think so. I think I've become a cat guy, yeah. Are you coming out as a cat guy for the first time, or is this something that you've talked about publicly before? I don't think I've talked about it. And so, yeah, this is, I think this is. How many cats are we holding? You said you had two? We have two twin cats. They're brothers. They were bottle fed. And so they are, we got them as rescues. And so they're the most ridiculously cuddly little.

things they just they sleep on you all the time and like they've never scratched i mean they they murder birds you know on an hourly basis they would never hurt dada though is what you're saying oh yeah they're the sweetest but they bring in they brought in a hummingbird half alive the other day and It just got worse from there. I don't want to tell you what happened to that hummingbird. I didn't take you as a cat guy, but I guess people change with age, and I think that's something that I'm recognizing because I'm sure you didn't have a cat in your 20s. No, no, I didn't. I like dogs. I think I've always felt more like a dog and associated more with the dog vibe and the dog mentality. I think I needed men. You're nothing but a big old dog at the end of the day. You know, that kind of hyper kind of vibe. You've licked a face before is what you're saying. Right. Not like a cool dog. More like just an annoying, you know, runs in circles and, you know, whatever. Yeah, sloppy, lazy, annoying dog. Sure, okay. But the cats have a vibe that I'm like, I need more of that. I need more of that just chill and kind of, you know, they don't give a fuck about anything really. They're soothing. Yeah. Have you named your cats as fun as you name your song titles? No. They're named Lou and Moose. Those are pretty classic, I feel like, kind of straight ahead. That's a good quality name, I feel like. Is Lou Reed being referred to here? No. Just love the name Lou. The kid on our new album, his name is Lou. Lou Salamini, but I didn't name my friend's child after our cat after our friend's child. Lou is giving a little bit of kind of like Midwestern alcoholic bar fly. Lou is definitely, well, I mean, we could talk about my two cats for the whole time. No, but yeah, yeah. The thing is, I actually...

can't get their names straight for some reason moose looks like a loo and the loo looks like a moose and so i switch them up all the time those cats don't speak english anyways it doesn't fucking matter right yeah yeah they don't give a shit it's a good thing i only have one kid i wouldn't i wouldn't be able to keep them straight yeah i remember being a kid and like my i would hear my grandma or my mom like call me by my brother's name or vice versa and i would be like yeah It's really not that hard, guys. I don't understand how you keep fucking this up. And then when you turn 40, you're like, oh, damn, I'm surprised I don't do this more often. I forget my wife's name half the time. We'll be at a party. I'm like, this is my wife. And she'll be Corinne. You give it a little, you give it a beat. You know, you got to give it a beat. I'm not good at small talk. Everything just shuts down. I was at a party. Oh, God, I was at a party. And I can't hear anything in parties. I think it's tinnitus and everything. But I had a series of nonstop conversations where I just saw lips moving and just smiling and nodding along. Yeah, I left. I was like, I don't know if I'll ever be able to go to a party ever again or a bar or anything. You're saying you're done. I mean, parties, I like them, but I feel like they can be overwhelming. Especially if you can't hear anything. That can be discombobulating. Matt, have you tried Molly water? It really breaks the ice. It'll turn a bad party good real quick. Is it just a sipper? You just like sip a thing of water with a little molly in it? Well, there's a few. Sometimes you can do, like my girlfriend had her bachelorette this weekend. Hopefully her mom's not listening, but she took like a kind of like a Nalgene sports bottle, you know, that you'd fill up with water, a Sporty and Rich or something, you know, and then. filled it up with water, a little bit of the molly powder, and then you can kind of dole out by the shot to kind of control your dosage versus just like a, you know, cross your fingers and hope for the best. That sounds really great. It's nice, right? I've never done molly, and yeah, I don't know why not, honestly. What are you doing tonight, Matt? Right. I don't know. I've got to DJ at Night Moves.

I'm a big fan of shrooms and microdosing and all that kind of thing. Although, yeah, it's one of those things that you do and you're like, wow, why don't I do this every day? It is the opposite. For some reason, I always remember how much fun mushrooms are, but then... I very rarely feel like doing it. It's the opposite of cigarettes or whatever. Cigarettes are disgusting. From the second you smoke, but five minutes later you want another one, and they're never satisfying. They're just always awful. I think taking mushrooms, it's kind of like work. mental and physical that you have to psych yourself up to because it's true that there's a little bit you know exactly what's going to happen when you smoke a cigarette you're gonna be like i feel good then i feel bad right repeat forever and that's it but with mushrooms you're like i could like end up in the hospital tonight there's like a chance you know yeah are your experiences on mushrooms that differing you know what i mean are they that different or is it usually like a baseline good with some peaks and valleys you know what i mean I don't, I mean, I haven't done like a proper, you know, serious dose of mushrooms. God's dose. But I kind of, I know what to expect. I kind of know, you know, with how much, I know exactly like one cap and stem. We'll do, you know, an average size cap and stem. I was like, that's pretty good. Average size, average. I like that you're still a cap and stem guy showing your age. You're out on some bullshit chocolates. Yeah, you don't work in milligrams. I'm not a fan of the chocolates that much because often they're just like the worst tasting chocolate you've ever had. And I'm just like, just give me, I'll just eat the mushroom. But yeah, no, I. My thing was like one cap and stem and one haichu. Really? That's so smart, actually. That's a good recipe. What flavor of haichu are we working with? So you're making deconstructed gummies is what you're saying. Exactly. Kind of, yeah. But, yeah, you've got to be careful with haichus. Some of them are really, really bad. Really? I haven't met a haichu I don't like. I have.

Go on. Preach on that, brother. There's some that have the duotone. There's some sort of inner... Maybe it's like a cola or a soda thing. Anyway, there's a few of them. Be careful. I stick with the tropicals. I'm not a candy guy at all, Matt. And a high-chew, if you're in the right mood, you're just fragile enough. It's like eating popcorn at the movies. You just keep popping them because it's such a pleasant... texture in your mouth. There's nothing else quite like it, you know? They nailed it. It really takes a shit on a Starburst. I mean, Starbursts are, you know, whatever, you know, a cousin. Starburst is for boys. Hi-Chew is for men. Hi-Chew is a superior experience, for sure. I'm a big Twizzler nibs guy. I like the nibs. I like regular Twizzlers, too. Hold on. A Twizzler nib is just a poppable. Kind of smaller. It's like a little Twizzler nugget. It doesn't have the striations. It's more of a smooth... It's like it's an inch. You've seen them. Okay, so no, I... No, I'm not. Chris, you know, you've seen them. Well, I'm glad, because a lot of people are really kind of staunch Red Vine sympathizers. Yeah, I hate that. And I always found those to be disgusting. Twizzler's very superior, and I'm glad you're on that correct team. Yeah, I don't know. The Red Vine contrarians are, you know... Yeah, who hurt them? The public school system, likely. Yeah, Red Vines give West Coast energy to me. I think it is. It feels kind of that way. It feels like West Coast to me. Yeah, movie theaters. It's all Red Vines out here. I'm like, what's the agenda? What's the agenda here? It seems regional, which is one of my... It's like why In-N-Out hasn't made it past Arizona. They can't get... The level of supplies they need to make that quality of food on the East Coast. They don't even have tomatoes in Nebraska yet. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's hard for them. It doesn't survive the shipping. Exactly. I forgot. You live in L.A., right? Yeah. Oh, shit. I've recently kind of relocated here myself. Did you find the transition difficult, or did you dive right in and get a Volvo S90?

I loved the transition. I was ready to leave Brooklyn, definitely, and our daughter was four, and, yeah, and so we spent the last ten years out here. Oh, it's been that long? Shit, I didn't realize that. Okay, okay. Yeah, no, I know, I know. I've been out here for a long time, and it's starting to get time for, I think, a new change, too. She's, like, you know, her daughter's about to go to high school and stuff like that. Oh, wow. thinking of trying some new things. It is not having to work at an office or you're connected to any sort of specific location of the job. kind of cool um so so are we thinking austin what's going on i don't know i don't know i feel like i think you do know but you don't want to say which is fine yeah i told her i told her daughter that like we're just gonna keep because we only we had one one kid and and uh and i was like can you just get just keep following your kid like wherever they go to school just like get a little townhouse in town or you know or next to the dorm And then I kind of always want to be like a 45-minute drive from her, no matter what. She absolutely hates you. Well, right now, she's 14. She's like, yeah, I love that idea. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see in a year or so. Give it two years. Well, I like when bands get to that level where it's like... We all live in far-flung places, and we only come together when it's time to kind of make music or make money. It's like the Armageddon thing. Everybody comes together and pulls back to save the world. When the Saudi prince calls, all right, fine. I'll come to Berlin for this. If it's a million, it's fine. I'll do it. Yeah, we've never gotten any of those kind of... offers as a saudi prince you're not yeah oh really that's crazy you're not you're not getting the same offers as drake matt that's so weird well there's got to be some type of prince in some country who is going to need to pay you guys you know 4.7 million dollars to play there yeah which which oil baron has subscribed to the new yorker since high school and really needs the i'm thinking it's gonna be kim jong-un you guys are gonna go to north korea do a quick set he's gonna be like

I don't get the lyrics, but I just love this guy, man. I don't know. Bring him out. Do five songs. It'd be a weird billionaire depressed pool party. Yeah, yeah. This is not really that, though. We've done a few charity events outside of various sort of... millionaires hosted places and we played for charities by pools with people drinking. It's kind of fun. It's a good vibe. Do you play your own songs or do you just do more party covers? No, we just play our own depressing songs. I'm visualizing that famous radio head at the MTV Spring Break performance where they're playing like creep in the sun and just looking so bummed and it's like the crowd doesn't get it either yeah they had to be there i think i think matt's doing more like Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin's house for breast cancer kind of gala dinner thing. Yeah, yeah. A little more like that. We've done gala dinners. What do you wear for that? Do you put on the board shorts? Like, what is the look? I'm kind of confused. Do you perform in an open toe, at least? Yeah, exactly. No, never done that. I don't know if anybody in our band has ever performed in shorts. But somebody went through a barefoot phase, I'm sure. Brian doesn't wear shoes. See, I knew it. It's a drummer deal. Yeah, no, I've never done the shoeless thing. Yeah, it's a drummer deal. I struggle with how to put myself together for a performance or for photo shoots or all that kind of stuff. I really wish there was some sort of, you know, I wish I was in clinic or kiss or something. You know, BB's... skeleton thing is like oh that was smart you're the only person that has ever said those two things wow you just the the range of clinic from clinic to kiss is is wild i i had to shazam a clinic song like two weeks ago because i was like i know this i've heard this song five billion times i don't remember and then

My brain completely removed any knowledge of clinic over the last 15 years. No, I love clinic. But I thought you were kind of a uniform dresser. Like, I feel like I've seen you on stage in, like, all black, you know, or like a suit. Yeah, I mean, I used to wear suits and stuff. I've been going for the BJ Honeycutt look lately. I've been just, like, all, like, old vintage, you know, crappy, beat-up army. um, stuff, you know, issue crap. And, uh, it just feels, yeah, it just feels, uh, It feels like I don't have to think about it. No, I wish I could hide beside myself. I often think I wonder what Daft Punk is doing with their helmets now. You guys done with these? You guys done with these? Yeah, I just start wearing one of them. I would probably alter it a little bit. Make it your own. Wouldn't want to steal their back. I mean, I just... I think, you know... You also destroy these clothes because you're sweating a lot. You know what I mean? You're spilling shit on them. Yeah. So it has to be kind of utilitarian, which I feel like the... army surplus vibe works in that way yeah you know also i'm 52 and it's kind of like skinny jeans is like come on man i can see you getting it i think you should talk to you know get one of get your manager your p you know get them to talk to a brand let's get some custom suiting on you if i can do it you can do it down that road actually no i i don't see any reason why i mean unless you guys are doing coachella at uh you know 12 15 but You should just wear a suit every time, uniform, dress in, don't think about it, put it on, you feel good, rock star, let's go. I mean, that's what I do for a fucking live podcast. You get a suit on? Yeah, well, when we first started doing live shows, Chris is sort of known as the sartorialist of the two, and I'm kind of the schlubby guy. So on our first ever tour... I showed up and brought a suit, and I decided at some point I'm going to wear a suit every time we do a live stand-up show or a live podcast. He didn't tell me. He didn't tell me either, so I was underprepared as we boarded the plane. And I think it was a tactic so that we weren't competing. It's also because I have the same mindset as you. You're nervous about a show. You want to perform really well. You want to remember everything. You want to do a great job. And if you're in your head about an uncomfortable outfit that ended up not working or...

some pants that don't fit right or whatever like you can It can fuck you up, especially if you're a self-conscious person. It's not that comfortable. I don't love wearing a suit. And Interpol, they were practiced right next to us, and we were always like, ah, you can't do the suits now. Those motherfuckers are showing up for practicing suits. You know what I'm saying? They did. They take it serious. Did they wear a suit to the practice room really much? They always. Well, they don't always necessarily wear suits. Dan, I think Daniel kind of always wears the suits, but those guys always were put together. It was great. I mean, with Carlos, the suit stays on during sex, we assume. If they're not wearing a suit in the Williamsburg... practice studio then they're wearing at least a tucked in dress shirt yeah and a nice belt or something yeah i remember i saw daniel in a restaurant in barcelona because i think he lives there part-time yeah he was he was wearing a suit yeah and i was like this motherfucker keeps it real on brand eight o'clock on a tuesday night looks good every time i've seen him it looks good i mean the thing is that does it it the the idea of a suit is that if it's made properly It is comfortable. Yeah. You know, that's the whole thing. Yeah. But I still think it takes 10,000 hours to get there. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, those guys have just, like, ugh. You know, it's sort of like everybody looks kind of like an idiot in the suit compared to them, you know? Nick Cave has also mastered kind of the long hair. but also sort of bald thing, which is you have to be on a stage to pull that off. You have to be famous. So hard to pull that off. You can't just rock that as a project manager. It doesn't work the same way. Our whole band, all of us, Brian's got a thick rug still, kind of decent, but the rest of us are all creative. How do you own it? Those guys all...

kind of own that we're trying to gracefully embrace or uh whatever aesthetic we get cooking now but i feel like i feel like there hasn't it ain't easy yeah i mean i feel like there hasn't been a huge look shift i feel like you had short short hair at one point you know which is easier easier to maintain i think in some way well at a certain point i think once you hit an age you're like all right am i are we are we plucking the grays are we dying the beard are we going au natural are we owning it there's a lot of decisions that have to be made yeah and i think a lot of those guys i mean i'm not gonna to anybody's personal habits, but I think a lot of them do do a lot of maintenance and colorizing. More maintenance than you'd believe. Please tell me that you know Nick Cave's Botox guy. Please tell me that. I'm not going to tell any of these. Well, Nick Cave's been dying his hair since 1983, so that's not really... The idea that you have secrets on indie rock luminaries and what they do is pretty funny. That's a funny idea. I think a good case study for you to follow might be Morrissey. I think he's done a good job of owning his kind of fat shittiness. You know what I mean? He gets that shirt off. He looks good. He's never looked worse in his life, but he still looks good because he has that. He owns it. He owns that look. He's like, here's my fucking fat ass, bitch. Don't eat the wings. I saw him in Vegas pretty recently, and he still took. the shirt off and did the whole thing and i was like really yeah it was amazing like he takes off the gucci dress shirt the fans still rush the stage and you know try to hide a piece of it in their mouth you know it was the full yeah the full experience that i've seen at this point in my life 10 times and it did it it did feel a little like yeah maybe keep the shirt on you know but it's the that's part of his no that's the beauty that's the animal magnetism that he has where women and and some men are looking at him just like

You know, he's got his big belly greased up with vegan A's or whatever, and they're like, this looks like my fucking dad, but I am so compelled to just fuck this guy for some reason, you know? No, it's unbelievable. There's never been anyone like it. But that show is really, I mean, I was at Caesar's Palace alone to see Morrissey, so it was a dark time for me, obviously. Suicide watch. All of that sounds kind of incredibly dark and amazing, though. Well, let me tell you. It's very fear and loathing, actually, what you said. The shows in Vegas are so strange. We played a show in Vegas where the AVN Awards were right next to where everybody was staying in the same hotel, right? Yeah, and so it was just a great mixture of national fans and porn stars everywhere. I didn't recognize a single person, I promise you. Of course not. I didn't recognize any of those adult entertainers from my Google Chromebook. I don't have any T-shirts of those people. Not a single soul. And they usually do the AVN Awards at the same time as the CES, Consumer Electronics. Oh, really? Fair thing because it's like all these computer engineer nerds who are ready to, you know. Pay for sex. They're dropping like the new PlayStation is kind of the headlining event at CES. Right. So that's a twisted combo of AVN fans, consumer electronics manufacturers, and national fans all in. all in Las Vegas. I hate to say this, but I think there might be more crossover with the CES crowd and the national fans than the avian crowd and the national fans. You're like, I'm not sure. I'm not totally sure. Actually, now that you say that, have you seen any footage of an adult dancer dancing to one of your songs? Ever been tagged in one of those TikToks? No. Okay.

That's a common thing with the deftones, you know, Jason? Well, with a lot of bands. I didn't know that was a thing, but I guess that makes sense. No, if I'm fucked up at Jumbos and someone goes up and hears Nine Inch Nails or something like that, I'm like, okay, let's go. Yeah, that's true. Or even an Interpol song or something like that, it works. But your music is... You have songs that somebody could do something erotic to? Speaking of erotic, I was at a... Zebulon here in LA a few nights ago. What? What the hell were you doing at Zebulon? It's one of the most erotic parking lots I've ever smoked cigarettes in in my entire life. Yeah, were you smoking cigarettes in the parking lot? What were you doing? A friend of mine, my friend Charlie was playing and my friend Rombo was playing. I got there pretty early and kind of went back in the room and I was just kind of sitting sort of over by the side of the stage. And there were about 50 or maybe 100 people in there, maybe not even quite that many. And I sat down, and one of the first performers, there was a woman who played acoustic guitars, really wonderful, but then she was followed by another woman who just brought out a... Just like a sequencer and did some beats and just created some beats right there. And she just had a microphone and some pedals on the floor and she did some sequencing and did something. And then there's also a pole, a stripper pole that I think she had brought with her, which was sort of like set up with a platform next to it. And so she would create her own music and then... And then she was wearing like sweatpants and stuff and then kind of would start to like kind of warm up and do like a bit of a pole thing and then go add more. And so she kept going back into building these songs and getting recordings from the crowd and looping it into this thing. And then she would slowly, and then she took off her sweatpants and said, but her mom, a woman sat there next to me. And she said, I'm so proud of her.

She sat next to me and she said, she said, I don't bite. And the first thing she said, she said, she was great. She was great. So I was talking to her and I didn't know what the woman was on. And then, and so it was just the two of us. And there's about, like I said, there's about 50 or 75 people kind of like standing around in the room, just kind of talking. And I think, I think a bunch of people knew who I was or saw, I could just, I get a sense that I, but so we're watching and then, but the woman says, She says, actually, my phone isn't working. Could you film this? Oh, no. Yeah, her stepdad's going to cherish this. That's what she said. And so I started filming with my phone. I'm like, sure. And I'm kind of like, okay. With your phone. With my phone, yeah. You're like, where's Ashton Kutcher at? Come out. And I was really close to her, too. So it was just like, in my head, I was like, does everybody see me? Because I didn't pull out my phone for the guitar player right before her. But suddenly, when this woman starts on the pole, Matt Bernier pulls out his phone 10 feet away and starts filming the whole thing. The Brooklyn Vegan headline tomorrow morning. Spotted in Zebulon filming a strip performance. It was actually a really cool performance. And then I texted it to her mom, but it was one of those things I was like, am I supposed to film the whole thing, the whole strip tease? I was too close. Filming a strip tease for someone's stepdad is an interesting request to a stranger. It was cool, though. She was making some interesting... She was really good at both. That's the thing. She wasn't faking it on either. She was a really good musician and a really incredible pole dancer, too. I like that she was combining Ed Sheeran-style looping with pole dancing at Zebulon. It's kind of a full circle. To me, it sounds like you just described FKA Twig's Tiny Dust concert. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, it was cool, though. It was really cool. Do you live on the east side? Yeah. I'm sorry. No, west side. I live on the west. I live in Venice. You're a whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, west side guy. I'm honestly blown away by that. I thought you might have been. I could see you being a Pasadena cat. Pasadena's cool. I'm thinking Beachwood for him, but Venice is cool, bro. Yeah. I like the crystal shops. Yeah, and there's the old magic around here. I like the vibe. It's ripe with Duchovny energy. Yeah, that house, the California house, the California education house is not far from here. Unknown landmark. Venice, though, has gone through. I just feel like we talk about this sometimes because I remember when Venice was like, Abbot Kinney was like the hottest neighborhood in the world. Like, this is the number one place to be. Now, obviously, it's not that. So I imagine that's better for you as a resident. I mean, I've always thought Abbot Kinney, even, yeah, sometimes you go down there on a weekend and it's, you know, it's just, it is hyper hip, you know. Then again, I'm not complaining. I get an awesome coffee, incredible donuts, everything. If I need a sweater. It's all there. There's a Tom's shop, although I think the Tom's shop is gone. I like the little luxuries. I like to walk places and get what I need and walk home. That's my thing. Yeah, that's the Brooklyn vibe. I was going to say, I think that's why we landed in West Hollywood, for a similar reason. I can actually walk to stuff, and if you live in New York for long enough, you just are kind of wired to do that, for better or worse. Matt, do you have a longboard skateboard? No. No, I tried to learn how to surf, and that was too much for me. It was too cold, too wet.

Two. Too much water. I checked out the ocean. Too much water. Too much water. It's really salty. There's a lot of it. I had no idea it was going to be this salty. They try to warn you, but there's no way I've really known. When you get to this age, because this is happening to me now, because I just turned 40 six months ago, everybody starts telling you how you've got to surf, man. You've got to try it. You would love it. I'm like, I don't think I would. It's the working man. golf if you did and you did love it you'd be it would be a really good thing but it's um it's just it's really hard what can i tell you i would love it if i didn't suck at it so much you know what kind of what kind of exercise are we doing i do a lot of bike riding and and uh yeah that's kind of my You're like spandex road bike guy, or you mean more of a cruise? Much more of weaving. You're a weaver. I don't try to get anywhere fast. I like to smoke weed and go on a long, meanderish ride to nowhere and back. You sound like Jason. I'm taking pre-workout and trying to give myself a hernia on the squat. and you guys are just smoking a little herb and strolling. It's two sides of the same coin, I guess, in some ways. You get a workout. It's relaxing. You do some pondering. In the middle of it, you stop to eat a burrito or something like that. You ride. Then you have to ride home or else you won't be home. Then you're forced to just do it all over again. It's beautiful. I definitely think weed really does It is good for exercising. I know a lot of people that it's like runners and that kind of thing. It is a catalyst for kind of like getting in the zone a little bit, and that's a good way to do it, I think. I do it. I work out high on an edible every single day. Yeah. It helps you create the mind-body connection. Yeah.

Yeah, good for you. Not to sound terrible. You're so full of shit, but I also think it's true. It's true, bro. No, I know, I know. It's how I get good form. Yeah. It reminds me to have good form. Do you listen to music, though, or are you trying to be lost in your thoughts? Sometimes I will listen to music. Sometimes, yeah. Yeah, I will listen to, like, the sketches. I'll just put them, like, on. shuffle all the just just music sort of uh oh your own shit your own shit demos and projects that that those guys are sending me or other people sending me just yeah i will i will just like put all that stuff in a swim and and not necessarily work on it but just like it like you know just kind of put the spider web up and see if anything lands in it you know and Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll pull over and text myself a lyric or I'll sing a melody into my phone, a vocal melody or something every once in a while. I stop and start a lot. And I get yelled at a lot by real bikers, you know, the on your left. You know, I get a lot of, on your fucking left. And I'm like, well, I'm riding here. What are you doing writing a heartfelt song? Get out of the road. I'm weaving all over the place. I love you. I love you wearing fucking jeans singing into your phone while a guy on Spandex is like, move, pussy. Yeah, no, that's good. That's perfect. There was one time I was riding my bike and just cruising along. And some dude, you know, in the full, I think he even had one of those helmets that kind of goes back. Comes to a point. Yeah. The alien helmet or whatever that thing is. Yeah, he was cruising by. And he said, he was like, on your left, he looked at me. And I'm like, I just, and then he slowed down and he started filming me. And he's like, he's like taking a selfie with me. Hell no. He's like, yo. Yeah, he's like. He's, like, trying to get me. I'm just like, hi. I was, like, just riding along this guy. Dude, that is truly the worst. That's true. Oh, that's good. It was okay. I was like, cool. I thought he was going to yell at me for almost weaving into him. No, I mean, that's where celebrity comes in handy. You know, some fucking aggro guy is about to fight you. Like, all right, fuck it. Oh, shit, it's you. What up, dude?

You're the blood buzz, man. Blood buzz, man. Yo, I fucking love blood buzz, dude. Dude, blood buzz, bro. I was just about to fucking beat the living shit out of you, bro, but dude, my chick loves your band. Yeah. Because if I need my girl, I'm not going to... No. I like the idea of them naming specific songs that they like of why they're not going to beat your ass. That's really funny. That's really funny. I was going to, but... I was going to, but man, you know... If you didn't bring it all together in verse 3, you'd be on the fucking floor right now. I'll just keep it 100 with you. I like that you use exercise like that, though, because I think that that... Because people always talk about the shower or whatever. And I find that exercise, especially even just walking, I feel like that's the most beneficial time to actually think about stuff. Definitely. Something that I miss a lot about New York is just kind of being able to go outside and sit and kind of stare at the wall. you know what i mean like sit and not look like a weirdo yeah exactly exactly like i don't have to have a dog or a stroller right yeah yeah i'll just sit on a fucking bench and stare at people for a couple hours and i just that really gets me going you know and here you just can't really do that in the same way because you're in your own backyard so there's no action yeah you know yeah there's no action there's no way to just listen to rem on repeat Yeah. For 11 hours in public. It's tough. Yeah. New York is my safe space for listening to REM over and over. Yeah. It feels like if you're out and about, it has to be a social thing here where instead of just being meandering around on your own and just doing your thing. It's not a safe space to meander. Did you guys sell everything? Do you have a house there or anything? Or is it like you divested? You're an L.A. guy. Well, no. Yeah. We don't have any footprint anywhere else. mobile sort of footprint thing. We've never quite figured out if we want to stay here, so we've rented and had different ideas. So it feels pretty good. I'm glad, because now, like I said, I think it might be getting close to time for trying something else.

We'll see. I love you saying you're going to try something else because I just don't know where else there is to live, you know? Uh-huh. Except you're obviously like London or whatever, depending on what you're into. Yeah. But you don't strike me as like a, I'm going to go to Berlin and find myself. No. Or I'm going to go to Portugal, you know? No. Maybe Miami. Maybe Miami for you. That'd be a fun twist. A lot of it is like kind of like wanting to be around. family and that kind of thing and starting to feel like, yeah, it's time to maybe just be closer to those connections and that kind of thing. Do you feel like you could actually live anywhere? Like, does it matter to you anymore? Like, have you aged out of caring? No, I don't think I could live anywhere. But I don't seek... I'm not looking for... I'm not really looking for a new fun city. Sure, sure, sure. Bro, have you heard about what's happening? I'm looking for a place with a nice Whole Foods. That's about it. New York and Brooklyn is amazing, but when we kind of close the chapter on that, I don't want to necessarily go back to that lifestyle or anything. So we'll see, you know, like, yeah, I don't know. It's funny. It's like I grew up in, you know, suburban Ohio. And so there's a certain thing I'm kind of like, I just don't want to, I just kind of don't want that, you know, the thing that, you know. But it is, it's a little, I mean, New York was so much fun when I first moved there. And then in L.A. it was so cool and new when I first moved here. But, yeah, right now it's not like, It's not tickling the taint. I don't think I could live in Paris or anything like that or London. I think I need to be in American waters for whatever reason. I love this. I love Matt. We see it in three years that you move to Detroit. We're like, damn, didn't see that coming. I think he's going to go Chappelle mode, get a little compound. Yeah, he's going to Chappelle mode. That's great. You get kind of a barn studio situation. You can kind of be as loud as you want out there.

Yeah, no, actually, Chappelle's got his little Ohio, you know, compound. He's kind of stealing your swag, actually. I feel like, I don't want... I know. Maybe if he moved. I wonder if he would move. You could buy it. So there's a stage in the back and a gazebo. This is kind of great for me, actually. Like, I think this is going to be good for my family. This is right. Actually, speaking of Chappelle, Chris and I were talking before we recorded about the kind of age-old... trope of like all all comedians want to be musicians and all musicians secretly want to be comedians do you feel like you've ever uh have you ever done any secret open mic nights with a disguise or anything like that no no no uh i do i mean that that does uh um that's that to me seems like the yeah the the nice edge in terms of sort of performance for sure um yeah um stand up and and um No, but I've always, that's a tough thing. Between song banter, every once in a while, I feel like every third comment or fourth comment that is made by our band isn't embarrassing, isn't just cringy. Sure, sure. Not bad. I mean, for a band, that's pretty good. I don't know. I think we're worse than average. You could do better. I'm trying to think of, but I'm trying to think of who do you consider the master of that, or who have you seen do it consistently? Well, Tom Waits is incredible at it. Okay, yeah, yeah. I remember seeing Billy Bragg one time, and he had me laughing. Billy got jokes? Billy Bragg is so funny. I see that. I see the protest songs. He's hitting you with the chuckles. He's really funny. Whenever I think of great banter, Billy Bragg is always the first person that comes to mind. I'm always like, just somebody start, press any key, play, just any noise. Anything. Yeah, so I can. I got to say, you seem like the type of person who would enjoy or maybe relish those moments and kind of want to flex some of your skills. No, I'm not myself in those moments. I'm not, like, relaxed at all. I'm not, you know, I can't.

I can't. And also it's, it's not a conversation. It's like, you'll hear a little bit, you hear something and sometimes there's a, you know, you can react to something somebody says, but mostly it's just like, it's just like this weird, empty, uh, moment. And it's, and it, it's, I am always like, maybe just let it be empty. Let it just be tense and empty and then move on. Hey, everybody, thanks a lot. Make a little quip and stuff like that. I prefer that to the soundscapes. You know what I'm saying? When people like... md the show so there's always like a vibe between songs like bro let's i would much prefer a soundscape i just can like unless you're that kind of band like you guys have fucking songs when a song ends the song ends i i don't i don't want you to go dead mode and start noodling right you know what i mean right i don't i don't want that i i don't think the fans want that i'd rather watch you attempt to be funny that's a better proposition for the fans yeah uh Yeah, but have you seen... I don't know. You see a few minutes of it and then... What's worse, Matt speaking or jamming? It's going to be real. That's true. I might be the kind of person who ranks jamming pretty low, so I could be biased. I prefer the dark art of humor. Yeah, you guys feel like a silence band. I think you should try to own the silence if you don't want to talk because... The show is, you know, it's a special religious kind of experience, so people need a little meditative break, I guess. Yeah. But you sort of have to, like, everybody has to agree to the silence thing, because then... Somebody will always fill the empty space. You've got too many mics on stage. That's your fucking problem. You've got to take the mic. The auxiliary saxophone player don't need a mic. You've got to cut these guys off. Unless he's got jokes. Maybe that's part of the auditioning process, especially if you're bringing the bigger band on tour. You can sing, that's great, but let's see a type 5, if you don't mind, just before we make a decision.

Matt, I wanted to talk about a little bit of the album and new music. The new single, Eucalyptus, the song is about that thing when you're in a relationship and you have to break up and divvy up your shared items and things like that. In the video, it's kind of like a black and white standard video. I was wondering why you didn't put the footage of... the two couples giving up their beanie babies in a courtroom for the video. Yeah, you missed on that. You missed. Yeah, she loved it. I played her that one. That one was written really late, and I wrote that one all really fast, and she loved it. It wasn't so much. Until way later, we were already playing it live and stuff. Oh, you're playing it live. She's like, oh, by the way, we should talk about that song. Because all those things are real things around the mountain vault. We always are fighting over. over the mountain valley spring water um who's gonna take over the mountain valley account she's got we got the glass bottles and i'm like of course they're so fucking heavy i'm like why can't we get the plastic ones and she's like well they're you know it leeches into the water and and uh so we we cut and so i'm always these giant plastic i've broken a couple of them these huge you know glass anyway the what the mountain valley spring water is a contentious uh thing around this place but yeah no but the rest the whole the whole song is kind of kind of looking at like making sort of having fun with that uh thing and i um yeah i'm in i'm in a healthy marriage but i think it's because i you know we always write when we write together a lot and and writing songs about you know the things you fear the most and and uh kind of looking over into over the edge of the cliff sometimes is is uh

is where I like to write from, you know. And so, yeah, I mean, it's also a little bit about the band, you know. Almost all my breakup songs are somewhere in between, you know, my own personal relationships and just all the stuff in the band and stuff, you know. Yeah, like who's going to get which guitar pedal, you know, when you guys eventually break up? I'm not going to get any of those instruments, I'm pretty sure. bro you can keep a couple of the mics and shit but like stay away from the guitar so does that mean that you're so you're writing this song about a thing that hasn't happened because you are in a healthy and successful relationship yeah but you're able to pull items from your own personal life that could be contentious if you were to break up yeah or is it just like things that happen to you no i'm always writing like about about you know things you fear and things and just and And some of them are things that have happened, and some are things that haven't. And it's all a mixture. But it's all sort of like, I'm always writing from a genuine mental soup. I'm never really trying to write a song like, okay, let's write a song about this. Although Eucalyptus is... is sort of one kind of idea, the whole song is. But that's kind of a rare song. I think I'm usually mixing, just mixing all of the garbage, all the pieces of fear and all the pieces of desire and all in the same thing, just mix it all up. Nothing's ever quite a diary entry, but if I'm not unpacking, Something actually, you know, that's alive and, you know, whatever got its hooks in me, you know, whether it's an anxiety or a desire or, you know, feeling, whatever they are. All that stuff is, I'm definitely like playing around with things that I genuinely have.

big feelings about you know on the other on the on new order t-shirt there's a line about kind of like waiting for someone to get off of work at the what i took as a reference to the conde nass tower is that fair to say yeah okay i just that is that is that is yeah i mean it was like yeah it was my my wife used to work there um it's now yes of course conde nass is now down in the but it seemed like a it seemed it was a big day for all of the sad media women in my life because they got some representation. Yeah, they were like, finally, there's a national song that really speaks to me. And I just wanted to make sure I was clear because that was my interpretation as well when I heard the song. But I just wanted to get the skyscraper. Yeah, from the horse's mouth, I needed to know if that was, in fact, the truth. And I'll let Anna Wintour know. She'll be in touch. And we'll kind of see what happens. But, you know, I'm praying for you. She's very litigious. Let's just say lawyer up. Let's just say call your team. You know what I mean? Also in Eucalyptus. Why is it called eucalyptus? I know, asking the national why a song is named. Well, there is one reference. There's one reference to a rainbow eucalyptus tree. But, yeah, no, it could have been. It might have had a better title, but yeah. It was the only word in the song that didn't sound like a terrible title. No, I like it. You can take it. You should take it is not... You should take it. You know what I'm saying? It's a little aggressive for you. You should take it. It's just like... But then again, that is chorus repeated over and over again. So I didn't worry about that. It was very, it wasn't, I won't, it's not triggering, but it was very relatable about like the classic line of any modern romance of like, well, you know, like, you know, you should take it. I mean, otherwise I'll probably just throw it away. You know, like we've all, like those are amazing song lyrics for you or Radiohead or any band that would sing a song like that. But it's also a thing that we've all said, just like, well, I mean, if you don't, I don't fucking, I hate this fern.

I'm going to throw it away if you don't. Well, most of it is because it's just too painful to think about, like, it's just, you know, like, it's too painful to think about, like, well, who gets that tree? Who gets that plant? You know, who gets, you know. And that's why, you know, I try to make kind of a fun song out of it. Yeah, real fun stuff. Yeah, real fun stuff. A laugh a minute. It is sad, but, you know, also in a moment of a breakup, when you're at that point where you're, where you were like hey come over and we got to divvy up the stuff like you sort of are past the real pain part and you're in the part of like we can just kind of like laugh about something that's like ironic and funny because you have to yeah it's funny that song that eucalyptus i wrote after i was like back and kind of having fun and like a lot of the songs were uh were harder to write and and i went through a long phase where i couldn't write at all and and um And I didn't want to kind of back, I didn't want to dig into that stuff, into anything for a long, long, long time. It was almost a year. Is this like a writer's block situation? Yeah, I mean, writer's block, depression, you know, yes, yes, and yes. A tricky combo, let's say. Oh, yeah, it was a good, it was a potent mixture of just, you know, and the pandemic was certainly an ingredient in the batter, for sure. But, you know, and that kind of caught up with me, I think, just all the disconnection. But when the band, you know, after a long, was able to start to, we were in a room together and we started, things started. coming together when we were touring together when the songs started coming i i was just writing fast and this one i was i wrote really fast and it's kind of the darkest one of the darker songs on it but it's the it's it's i was having more fun writing this one um and then yeah but then the record has a bunch of songs that kind of maybe unpack that stuff in less of a silly you know way and and maybe more of a more of a direct way um

But, yeah, I'm always trying, like, this record was definitely one of those ones where it's like, we weren't thinking about any kind of record to make this time. We were just, whatever, I mean, truthfully, it was like whatever I was reacting to, everybody was so happy that I was. writing again. Especially your manager. They're like, dude, do whatever you got to do. We got to get this thing out. Every idea, once I started generating ideas, they're like, perfect, it's great. You're a genius. We even released the first song that we kind of finished once I was... It was Weird Goodbyes, and we put it out right away. It's not even on the record, but we put it out because... It was this, like, oh, my God, we finally got one again. And so we released it. So this record was funny in the way that it was, like, it kind of, it wrote itself in the way that, like, I was, I didn't have any agenda or vision for the record other than, like, I just need to be able to, I hope I can do this again, and I don't want to lose this. And so the songs that finally came out were like, okay, well, yeah, these represent the fact that I haven't completely lost my mind and my ability to write. Still got your fastball. Yeah, and everybody got really happy and excited about the record. It was a different kind of... sort of joy towards the end of this record than we've ever felt just because it was like ah yeah we all felt like maybe this maybe this is is there was a phase during that long year towards the end of the year where people were like maybe this isn't gonna happen you know and So when it finally did, everybody was just really, really into it and really happy. Yeah, I mean, that's beautiful. I mean, after doing this for as long as you've done it, I'm sure that that's gratifying after the struggle. Yeah. Because you guys have been doing, I mean, you've done this for a long fucking time. I mean, you know, and pretty successfully, which is like tough these days, you know. So it's, I can't imagine what it would feel like to like kind of.

not be able to do what you're like supposed to do not be able to kickflip anymore yeah like you know you're like this is but this is what i do it's time to do what i do why is it not working we always we always have kind of we we have sober conversations about like you know well we don't we don't want to do this unless it feels really good and healthy and happy for everybody that's it you know that's it and and there's a phase where people are like well this isn't This isn't really doing Matt any good, right? There's a phase where if this alchemy doesn't change, nobody wanted me to suffer through it, and I didn't want to suffer. That's nice of them because, look, if Jason couldn't perform, I would make his ass suffer because we got bottom lines to hit. That's nice of them. The whole band, everybody was incredibly... uh yeah just really patient and and chill about it you know and i know everybody was probably kind of more nervous and worried than they let on you know i was more nervous than i let on you know i kind of i told everybody like oh yeah no no no i'm i'm it's it's starting to it's it's working and then i and i had to show up last april after almost a year and i had nothing you know i just didn't have anything anything at all and so that was when i was like oh man maybe we don't and so But over the course of a couple of weeks together, things started bubbling. And then we went on tour and things started bubbling more, and quickly we were writing a lot fast. So, yeah, it came back. It just came back after time. I wish I could say, this is what happened. This is what helped. And it was maybe a little bit of exercise. I even tried quitting drinking, quitting smoking weed, quitting everything. And that didn't help that much, I've got to be honest. Thank God. That didn't work. I just went back to it, and it was fine. I dabbled in antidepressants, and they did. They helped a little bit, raised the floor a little bit, but mostly it was just time. I think it was just...

time and in working through it yeah i mean i think a lot of people no i think a lot of people think that removal or additions of substances is going to really like really hinder or or encourage the process but i think i think you're right it's like it's it's more mental than that it's like beyond that i think in some way i mean i i people should seek you know ways of of whatever they need to you know to get out of it But I think also I think you should it's good. It was good for me to understand. I mean, I was well aware that I was like had a flu. You know, that's what it felt like. I was just like I couldn't. It felt like a physical thing. And so I knew it wasn't just like it was I knew that it was like, you know, a. This isn't the real me, you know, it's it's it's part of me. But like this thing I'm overwhelmed, like I'm underneath right now is. uh is not really this doesn't define how i'm going to be forever i just have to kind of like get through this or whatever it was and the weather the storm yeah i mean it's nice to have it's nice to have that perspective on it yeah i think that like that's what will encourage you to power through is that kind of attitude like yeah you just kind of like you gotta just slowly pull at the at the threads and the knot and all sides of it and the knot will slowly you'll start to figure it out eventually but you can't like you can't like untangle a knot overnight. Hope you're writing this shit down. Yeah. We got single number two ready to go. We're ready to go. We got LP [redacted address]. No, thank you, Matt, for joining us on How Long Gone Today. You know, we've been listening to The National for years and years. This was a pleasure for us. Yeah, likewise. A pleasure and an honor. Hopefully we'll come see the show. I'll keep my shirt on. Wait, when you say likewise, does that mean you... Does that mean you listen to this podcast when you say likewise or no? Yes. Wait, what are you listening? How long gone? I've listened to you guys. I don't know if I have a subscription, but I've listened to this podcast. I'll take it. I don't listen to that many podcasts and stuff, but I used to. I stopped all that. I stopped podcasts. I stopped Instagram. I stopped Twitter. Yeah, I never did Twitter or even Facebook. I stopped all that stuff.

Books on tape, I'm starting to... That's as far down the social media world. That's a very popular... People are really trying to optimize their time and nothing does that more to me than a book on tape. That's really optimizing. I want to say, I want to be upfront that... That I did read the first two pages of Frankenstein, but the rest of it I listened to on tape. Specifically, Dan Stevens' narration on Audible is incredible. Okay, Audible's not a sponsor of this show, so you've got to stop. Oh, shit, sorry. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, but thank you for joining us, and we'll catch the show if we can. And the new record out? April 28th? And it's called The First Two Pages of Dracula? First two... Frankenstein. Yeah. That's so much better. Yeah, First Two Pages of Frankenstein. You can edit stuff. Thanks to the streaming world, you can edit anything. It's no problem. Are we married to that title? Yeah. Thank you again. All right, Matt. Thanks so much, Matt. We'll see you soon. Appreciate it, man. in the arms of Chile.