580. - Dana Brown

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Chris Black coming to you live from beautiful Dallas, Texas. Jason, check out that weird art piece behind my head. It's a maestro conducting an orchestra. We are in the arts district of Dallas, so I think that's the reason for these choices. Have you seen the movie Tar? It's very similar to Tar. It's very Tar. It's a black and white image of a blonde woman conducting. I think that this probably predated Tar. Is there a chance that Tar was based on this? Photograph? I don't want to say that because that would be overstepping. Obviously, I'm not an expert. I haven't talked to the creator. I haven't talked to the stars, but it does feel... I thought you were big into photography. Yeah, I am. I'm not big into Hollywood, but I did... I told you this. I watched a movie yesterday that I loved. Which is so crazy. What is going on with you? You're getting soft, bro. You're watching movies. What's next? Do you think I wanted to watch this? I was forced to watch it. Are you going to eat a steak au poivre? What's going to happen next? I actually am going to a French place for lunch. Get the caprese and no tomatoes. It was the holdovers with an Alexander Payne movie starring a friend of the show, Paul Giamatti. It's just good, man. The music is good. I'm a sucker for a coming-of-age story.

um that's kind of my kink what's what was the music uh a lot of weird like seven stuff i'd never heard of i shazammed a lot of it all like kind of 70s like folk because it's based in the 60s um so maybe 60s actually like folk so not only did you watch a movie you shazammed it multiple times this is a new dawn it's a new day no i shazam i shazam everywhere all the time shazam linkedin my two favorites those are my two those are my those are my go those are the two most apps anyone could ever have. Oh my gosh. That's right. As a DJ, it's like, especially one who learned how to play on vinyl, you can't be Shazamming. If it's not already in your mental, then you just have to commit when you put the sword in the stomach as a Japanese sword samurai. I would like to agree with you, but I find information gathering fun. And if I hear a song I like. Nobody can say that LinkedIn is fun. LinkedIn is the greatest thing it's ever. LinkedIn is amazing because it shows a different kind of personality type that I don't encounter in my daily life. Which is thirsty for a job energy? What is the energy? No, it's more like. people who should not be allowed to express themselves expressing themselves. Does that make sense? It's like Facebook for people who have jobs. Exactly. It's a politically free Facebook for people with jobs. It doesn't talk about that, but you see people who... probably work with numbers for a living, you know, and they're writing, they're writing long soliloquies about how to succeed in business. It's just a, it's just pure entertainment and it's a different kind of person, you know, and I like to be exposed to all kinds of people to know who to hate the most. And that's kind of the research that your enemies closer. Type B is what you're saying. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I remember when I was on LinkedIn for like six months and I was like, bro, I have, I cannot be on here anymore. It is just, this is not my people at all. I look at it every day.

Every day. Yeah, it's not my people either. That's the whole fucking point. You still have Facebook? Oh, definitely. Yeah, but I would rather do that than be part of a Discord or something. At least I keep it real. Of course. Well, Facebook I just keep for the same reason. For, you know, absolute... looking you know voyeurism if you will so but in terms of cars i'm a whip guy so this so facebook that's like your old school you know it's it's in the garage yeah you got you take it out you don't you don't look at it eight hours a day it's not your daily driver like instagram or twitter driving on sunday Sunday afternoon, you take it out with the family, get a burger. You know what I mean? Twitter, that's your Cybertruck. You're in that thing morning, noon, and night, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Oh, that's the Cybertruck on 24's Bose sound system. I got a woofer in the back. It's not a game when it comes to that. The woofer has flooded out, and I have killed four children. I got a flooded woofer. Doctor says I got a flooded woofer. I can't. I can play tonight, but I can't sing. I'm afraid that my woofer is flooded. Have you seen on social media the rise of Christian nightclubbing? Oh, of course I've seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, all Christian stuff doesn't really surprise me because I feel like anything that comes up, I experience some form of it as a youth, or at least the idea of it. um but it is pretty funny do you that that being said because i feel like christian social events have been happening for decades but they it's sort of a fubu keep it in the congregation kind of thing you don't really see them doing outbound marketing right no no we should we should go out of office at least when we have when we have shows we should call it a congregation um yeah it's definitely a fubu situation but it's also like who else would want to go to that shit Because it's not like the Christian people to try and make a buck off of the faith, right? Oh, not at all. They would never do that. They would never pass around a plate and demand that you give 10% of your income. So if there's no bottle service, unless it's holy water or something like that, how are they making money? Because the nightclubs make money off of alcohol, and if no alcohol is allowed, then you just have to do a private buyout.

And then charge people like $100 a ticket? No, they're probably just writing it up as an L, a marketing expense like many corporations do. To bring more people in and therefore make more money. It seems like a loss leader. My father actually was the part of his volunteer work growing up. He was the lead accountant of the church. He knows where the bodies are buried. He's like, I don't talk about that time in my life, Christopher. I'll give him a call and just see what he knows about Christian nightclubbing. Who knows? Maybe he's sneaking out on the weekends and going himself. I mean, it is. Anything's possible. It is coincidental that this is popping up at the end of the fiscal year, isn't it? Like all of these, in my history in the nightclub world, every club would always have a toy drive sometime right before the end of the year, sneak that in. And wouldn't you know, we got over $85,000 worth of toys donated. And you're welcome, and I will be deducting that from our year-to-date process. Of course. No one needs a tax break like Dre's, you know. Thank you to the H. Wood Group for coming. Actually, yeah. All they do. Nightclubs and the Christian Church, it's like best of both worlds. That's like Kanye and Jay-Z coming together in the booth. That's like, what have we been doing this whole time? We're the two top scammers in the world. Let's combine our forces. Honestly, it's true. Honestly, it's true. Honestly, it's true. I guess the idea of a Christian nightclub is that you're just going to dance with your friends to music that doesn't have curse words or sexual overtone. Actually, now that you bring up music and the fact that you can't do anything sexual. Maybe this was from the mastermind of Chance the Rapper, the number one Christian-ass, pussy-ass rapper. The blueprint for the Christian wife guy, but in a fitted hat. He was born again. Unfortunately, I would like to blame this on Chance, one of the worst of all time, but I think that this feels so distinctly Southern California. And I don't know that for a fact.

but it feels like the rise of the scammer fun church is such a distinctly Los Angeles kind of based thing. Yeah, I guess so. There is a TV show called Righteous Gemstones showcasing how it started in America's South, where you're from. But if you want to point the finger Spider-Man style at me, then yeah, take shots of my fitted good luck. I just mean... I just mean more. California angels. Yeah, we are chosen. I just mean that the kind of because of Hillsong and the modern that thing feels very California to everyone. Let's not forget about mosaic. Stuff like that doesn't exist in the South. There's big, dumb churches. You try. I don't think they try that hard because they know they can't do it. They don't have access to that amount of fear of God. Like there's just no, there's no. We like the good Lord. We don't care for postmodernism. I don't enjoy minimal aesthetics. It makes me nervous. Can y'all put something on the walls in here? I don't know why this looks like Kim and Kanye's house. This is weird. Also, in the South, imagine a church having an EV charging station. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. I'd rather take my chances in hell. You know what I mean? I'd rather dance with the devil. Imagine going to an old school Southern Baptist church and they're teaching kind of a spin class for the younger generation. It just doesn't make sense. It just doesn't work. But I do think that the Christians will do anything they can to save people, to get them in there, get them dunked, and get them to heaven. And I think that if it takes two turntables and a microphone, that's okay. When you say get them dunked, do you mean Nike SBs on the feet? no I'm not talking about the pigeons I'm talking about being baptized okay copy that when you're dunked underwater just for someone that's like obviously going to hell like you i thought you would know this stuff but i guess oh i i'm from i'm familiar with uh baptisms i've seen it on tv and film i don't know i don't think i was baptized and if you were i was it didn't take did it you you weren't and i wasn't either and that's part of the reason that my family loves me less than my sister um but that's that's fine we've we've kind of they went to go put me in the water they try to dump me in the birdbath and i made a hissing sound like

a cat i mean i'm a known water baby i do flock to the ocean and feel comfortable there but being held under by like a white guy uh for a few seconds too long to wash away my sins i hadn't sinned that much i was only like 12 you know what have i done i haven't done anything yet being held against my will by an older white guy i mean it sounds hot kind of but and it's so wet everywhere oh okay we have a guest today Dana Brown is the former editor of Vanity Fair, deputy editor of Vanity Fair, and he has a book that I read recently called Dilettante, True Tales of Excess, Triumph, and Disaster. A fun story kind of about being pulled out from behind the bar by Graydon Carter and thrown into the Condé Nast system and all the things that come with that. uh but now dana writes screenplays etc and he listens to this podcast so i think we can talk i know you have a lot of thoughts on power lunching etc chris so i think i want to talk about that i want to talk about dana shut the fuck up for one second just kidding you're fine um yeah so uh yeah i'm excited to get into all this stuff i know he spent a lot of time front of house back of house expediting uh he's spent a lot of time doing coke in the dish pit hopefully so he also maybe wrote a book we'll see about that too let's give him a jingle this episode of how long gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the guardian stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned.

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Sorry for my decor, Dan. I'm in a hotel room in Dallas. This isn't my usual. I know you thought this was my house. But by the way, I apologize for my decor because I'm in my bedroom because my little desk that looks sort of chic on Zoom.

is in the front room with big windows, and there's a fucking ambulance that goes by like every five minutes. So you're getting bedroom vibes here. That's nice. No, that's okay. I want to ask about the TV, though. It's looking a little small. You know what? Okay. Yes, it's sort of embarrassing. This was a hand-me-down from my brother. This is the bedroom TV, by the way. This isn't the real TV. I'm sure you have a 65-inch in the living area. No question. This was a hand-me-down after the last one fell off the wall and got cracked. My brother said, oh, I have a TV. Do you want it? And so I took it temporarily, and it's been there for like five years. I mean, it's also like ancient. Like it looks like. pixelated when you watch shit on it. It's terrible. The real question is, did the TV fall out of the wall because you shoddily installed it, or did a TaskRabbit fuck that up? I think I fucked it up. I should not be trusted with shit like that. I'm terrible. Jason's a real handyman around the house. You and Chris are cut from the same cloth. And that cloth is not available at Home Depot. Once in a while, I will try to do something and I will fuck it up so badly that it then costs three times more to get it fixed from what I did because the wall then needs to be fixed. But this was, yeah, this was like a total disaster. Okay. No, that's okay. Look, we've all been there. We've all made mistakes. But by the way, look at that bed, that leather sort of square pattern. Is that... That's really awful. Chris, are you staying at an Ian Schrager property? I don't think Ian Schrager's ever been to Dallas before. No. But, I mean, maybe. No, he might have served prison. No, he was in Louisiana. Close enough. What would I do in Dallas? No, this design of this hotel is very, very interesting, and I'm going to get to the bottom of it. I just got here, so I haven't had time to dig in on the choices. Um, but I'll give you guys a full report from the gym. If there's any other kind of, uh, you know, gathering areas for guests. Well, it would, it would be nice for you to go out and just hate every restaurant you eat at in Dallas. Cause you hate every restaurant you eat at for the most part, which I love about you. It's funny you say that because I think that Jason actually hates more restaurants than me. I, well, you know, so, um, Jason, I read your Craig's, by the way, Craig's is the worst name for a restaurant.

In the history of restaurants. And I don't care that Craig, I can't even say it properly because I just want to say Craig. I know that he's like a figure and was at Dantana's. And it's in that sort of corridor of just like where food goes to die. Yeah, that's right. It's not really known for food over there, but there's great shopping. There's a Byredo. There's an Acne. There's the Palace Store, of course. There's obviously the famous Max Field. I'm sure you've gotten several. blouses there the earth cafe has a delicious tomato but don't you think if you're if you're you know carrying around some some acne bags or whatever you get a little hungry after shopping around and you want to eat a decent meal and craigs does not sound like the answer anyway i thought it was i thought it was a really really funny good review by the way i did i did appreciate it too if you guys haven't read it yet check it out on taste cooking uh but the um we we ate there and both of us were like I don't even think this is bad. This is just weird almost is kind of what I felt like. Like the food wasn't bad enough to eat. It was just weird. You know what it sounds like? When I first started going to L.A. for work, like mid-90s, the food in L.A. was not good. Like there was some sushi. There was some good sushi. But you would go to a lot of places that sounded like Craig's. They all had this sort of deconstructed Caesar salad on the menu. You know, it was just like it was chops. It was like chop house stuff. And I think you can't do that in L.A. anymore. I think the quality and level of food in L.A. has gotten so good in the last 20 years that you just can't get away with a Craig's anymore. And it'll probably it might be a hot spot for a little while. And and, you know, B-list celebrities might be going there to get photographed outside. But yeah, but I think I think it had restaurants like that have legs or staying power because. there are enough people whose palates and appreciation of restaurants are so low or have just been just decimated maybe where they're like oh this place there's a paparazzi and there's a tv i'm good you know maybe food is an afterthought kind of vibe i would say that i would say this though i would say i don't like that there are places that do what craig's

does better than craig's yeah and that's why you know that's what like jason said in the in the south beverly grill yeah the grill in the alley as he said any any place with grill in the name is basically doing better is it that sort of like like country club food revival is it kind of is it that sort of thing filet mignon drenched in some sauce and things like i think it's more it's like If you're an old guy and you need a chop and a baked potato and a shrimp cocktail, but I also need to know that chicken fingers... and ranch are also not too far if i need them like got it like it just feels safe like i won't feel attacked by the menu where you're like oh i don't want to eat any of this stuff i don't know what that is but why yeah i mean why drake chooses to eat there is is beyond my comprehension but i mean because there's not even any chicks in there at least when we were there it wasn't like there was like a 2013 he brings his own I'm sure. But like, I just, I'm like, what's the, everybody, it was just like being kind of like at any restaurant in that part of town, crowd wise, at least the night, Jason, I mean, the night we were there, it was just kind of like, oh yeah, these are just kind of regular corny rich people. There was no like, there was no sheen to it in the way that I wanted there to be is what I'm trying to say. Well, and I think, and this goes to like, to being a restaurant critic and reviewing restaurants is, you know, it's not just about the food. It's about the choice of color of leather on the banquettes. It's the art on the walls. It's the lighting. It's the crowd. It's the music that they play. And it doesn't sound like Craig's has much of that going. No, it has a lot of it. It's just not good. It's in spades, but none of it is good. Actually, speaking of food writing and criticism. Since it's something that I'm starting to dabble in and something that you've had a lot of experience editing over the years, I'm sure. And you have restaurant experience and you love food and dining out. So you're well versed in that. I think now that we've sort of moved away from the anonymous restaurant critic, more or less like every big critic, we kind of know what they look like and who they are. Do you think that nowadays, because of that, we should just start allowing people to just.

give us gifts in an effort to do a better review. Like, I feel like I need to, like, we need to change the whole structure. And I feel like I need to be able to be swayed by a restaurant. I don't want to catch them on a bad night. I want them to try and give me the best meal of my life. Well, sure, sure. I mean, you want to judge them on their best. I don't know. You know, as an old school, you know, what has happened to journalism in the past 20 years since the fucking Internet came around? I'm a little old school with that. I don't fit, you know, if they're going to send me a, you know, five ounce tin of caviar to my house for Christmas. Well, I mean, I'd probably take it. I wouldn't tell anybody. Well, it's been going on in other facets of journalism. I mean, that's like the whole reason most magazines are able to exist is because. The people that work there don't quit because they get to go on press trips. To me, I think of it as like overage points on a soccer game where it's like, it's not going to change. I'm not giving you an extra point or giving you, but like, you know, you send me a tin of caviar. The restaurant review is 5% better. It's not 50% better. You know what I mean? Just little increments. So you're saying TJ is for sale. I've always been for sale, but I'm glad that you've kind of caught up. I'm pretty much for sale, like 95% of me. My concern about this is that I have... All my holes. I'm hoping to start to review restaurants more often for airmail. Okay. I have one coming out in this week. Oh, yeah. Harrison told me this. Harrison told me this. It's about Casa Cruz, correct? Casa Cruz, yes. It's not a competition, sweetie. Come on. No, I know. I know. I know. Okay, but this is exciting for me. But I guess somebody in that position then, do we need an anonymous reviewer anymore? Or do you at least put your res down under a different name? I think nobody's anonymous anymore. I think it's impossible. That's the thing. I mean, the days when... I anonymously reviewed Craig's. That's because Craig's isn't a new – also, Craig's is not like – I feel like that only matters when a restaurant is like new and hot in the first year. Yes. You know what I mean? Well, I think it's because my name is not Jonathan Gold or Anthony Bourdain or P. Wells. That's why I was able to just go in and –

And dine out like a regular person. I don't think a restaurant like Craig's gives a shit, to be honest with you. But I think some places would. I don't think they give a shit. I went to Casa Cruz. I made a reservation under my name. Wait, can you tell us, can you tell everyone what Casa Cruz is? Obviously, we're familiar with all members clubs. But you, you know, go ahead. Have you been, Chris, to Casa Cruz? I haven't been invited. Oh, wow. Well, okay. It sounds like a grinder house. Okay, well, first of all, let me tell you. It's actually not really a private club. Okay. Like you can make a reservation and you can go have a drink at the bar and eat at the restaurant on the second floor. Okay. And then there's like three or four more floors. It's in a beautiful old townhouse. in maybe the worst location in New York City. I think it's like 63rd off of Park Avenue. So it's not quite Upper East Side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not quite Midtown. I mean, if it was in Midtown, it wouldn't make it any better. In New York's worst neighborhood. Yeah, but Midtown makes sense. You know what I mean? Midtown's fine. It's kind of an odd, but Midtown doesn't feel as busy during the days, and I think those places are lunch places. You know what I mean? The places that do really well are lunch places, maybe a little of the pre-theater thing. So Casa Cruz is it's an English restaurateur from London who has a restaurant in London that's sort of a celeb hotspot. What's it called? It might be called Casa Cruz, but I could be wrong. I think it might be. Inconsequential. Inconsequential. But so he bought this giant townhouse. So he's successful restaurateur. Successful restaurateur. But wait, but wait, because because I thought it was a private club and Graydon thought it was a private club and everyone thought it was a private club because there's this. there's so many new private clubs yes yes and like the the amon i forget how much the amon costs but it's out like the price it's like this this like war over pricing don't get me started on zero bond totally and and i talk about in this in this i really talk about all the clubs and the history clubs in new york before i get to casa cruz um but casa cruz charges

in the press that i've seen two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to five hundred thousand dollars a year now this gets you access to the upstairs private rooms but anyone can get access to the restaurant on the second floor So I don't really know what the exclusivity is about. If I pay $250,000 a year to go to a third floor, there better be some wild shit going on on the third floor. And by the way, they're considered investors in the place. So this is a scam. Okay, this is a scam. I got it now. Okay, you just ruined the end of my piece, by the way, which is kind of where I get to because there is nothing worse to invest in than a restaurant. Maybe a film. But like a restaurant is especially in a city where like the failure rate is so high to invest that much money in a restaurant in a townhouse that costs almost 30 million dollars for them to buy. And I can't imagine how much. And you're not getting you're not getting a piece of the real estate if you invest in the restaurant is my guess. I just want to make sure I don't know. But it's just it's sort of madness. And I went you know, I mean, in fairness, I went on a Sunday night, but the place was empty, completely empty. And I don't think if you spent. $30 million on the real estate for the place and it's empty at any point, I think you're fine. You should be upset. You should be concerned. You need to be selling drinks and food and you need to be packed. So we'll see. Which goes back to I am absolutely not for sale. when it comes to restaurant reviews. Of course. How about that? How about that for a bold statement? I don't want to get too into it. I don't want to blow our load because airmail comes out on Saturdays. But the food, I'm not, you know, you said British restaurant. I'm looking at the menu right now. I hope the food is not British. The price points aren't that high considering. It's not crazy and it's not, you know, I believe the owner is actually Chilean.

So he's from a rich South American who went over to London. I think he was even a banker in the finance world before he became a banker. Those guys are known for having great taste in restaurants, so that makes a lot of sense. 100%. Have you guys tried gnocchi? Gnocchi was pretty good. The food was actually pretty good. The food was actually pretty good. But you have to go to 63rd. Yeah. And park and sit in this hideous room with just, you know, I went and because it was empty, I had to I was like, what does this place look like when it's not empty? And so I went and I looked on Instagram, which was a huge mistake. And it was just I mean, it it looked like the like AVN awards or something. Crowd looking like the AVN when you were. The history of the private club is very British to me. That's the ones that I became familiar with when I was younger. When I first – before I moved to New York, I was a member of a place called Norwood. Did you find – Okay. I just want to see if that came up in this. It's actually my favorite line in the review is about the Norwood Club, and I'm not going to say what it is because you'll chuckle when you see it. But the Norwood Club, yeah, it was just shut a couple years ago. Oh, really? It's still open. It was still open a few years ago. Chris, did you cash in all your Norwood points in time? Norwood, for some reason, charged me $1,000. for that was it and i i went fairly often because it was fun it was it was it's funny we knew the guy that ran it and so we never had to pay and so we went It was basically five stories of places to do cocaine. I mean, that's all. You know what, Dan? You took the words right out of my mouth. I did do cocaine in all five of those areas and even a backyard, I think. I think I did too. Yes, and there was even a roof terrace where you could do cocaine. There was a screening room where you could do cocaine. And it seemed like – Not at all. And the only – because this was like mid-aughts when it opened. And like wherever you went.

All you heard was LCD sound system. That was the only fucking music you heard. So it was like cocaine and LCD sound system. I don't remember the food at all. And I definitely ate there several times. I couldn't tell you one morsel of food. Couldn't tell you. Couldn't tell you. I'm sure there was a crispy Brussels sprout on there that was dank. I think it was before that. I think it was before Brussels. I think it was pre. Yeah, I think it was pre BS. Yeah, Jason needs a second. I think it might have even been pre crudo. I think it might have been pre-credo. It was pre-credo, for sure. It was a weird place, but it was pretty. It was like a really nice environment. I mean, that's the thing about a lot of these places is that they are comfortable. The one, Jason, that Issy took us to in London, Oswald's. The place is insane. It felt like it's so beautiful. It's so comfortable. You do feel like you're doing something a little more special than just going to a restaurant. That being said, is it worth a quarter of a million dollars? Probably not. No, I don't think so. And in London, the whole point, London basically shuts down at 10, 30, 11 o'clock. And so you kind of need a club over there so that you can go somewhere and keep your... and new york doesn't have that problem yeah you know new york is everything's open till fucking four if not if not later in a lot of there's a lot of people in new york that have too much money and love to pay for the air of exclusivity that's what the city is built on that's right that's the city is built on that's a hundred a hundred percent right and there's there's more money here and and money has sort of replaced money is is cultural capital now in this totally and it's it's really sort of damaged i think i think it's damaged the city i mean i i you know la might have the same problem but i think culturally i think like la is probably more important than new york right now in in sort of american culture i just i think everything's happening out there all right this episode of how long gone is brought to back quince Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

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How long? Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. And by the way, I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm not saying it's a good thing. It brings Dana no pleasure to say the words. The Balenciaga fashion show did happen in L.A., but that's the only thing I can see. I don't know what else. I see where Dana's going because when I was in New York for the last week, I was like, hey, here we are. The world stage for everything. And I'm looking around and I'm not seeing it anymore. I even feel like the fashion stuff that they do in L.A. gets so much more attention than New York Fashion Week. Yeah, definitely. That's because it's still rare. And they it's only like giant brands doing giant things. You know what I mean? They're spending like if you're going to spend that much money, it's good. People are going to notice. Did you I know that you guys are fans of of Brett Easton Ellis. And I actually think I learned about your podcast when he was talking on his podcast about going on your podcast. Is that possible? Like it's sure. Yeah. So it's so meta. But so so Brett wrote and I know Brett is mostly known for for fiction, but he wrote a. like I think he's like a brilliant cultural critic like brilliant and he doesn't do that that much writing but he wrote a piece for Daily Beast about like over a decade ago and it was this exploration of this this idea of post empire america yes yes during it was when charlie sheen was like flaming out and like the the the show was falling apart and the the money and the cocaine and like winning yeah no exactly and and so brett wrote about that but but brett wrote this brilliant piece about post empire America. And it was comparing like what we used to be and what was acceptable and what were cultural norms and where we are now. And it was like, like Kardashians are very post empire. Charlie Sheen doing, you know, social media is very post empire. Donald Trump is, is like the most post empire. Yes. Yes. Figure you can have. What are some examples of.

Pre-Empire. Like, you know, those old clubs that you mentioned in New York, you know, were absolutely, you know, Empire. This is a Brett thing, like the Empire, post-Empire thing. It's a constant. He invented it and he talks about it a lot. And by the way, he should. If I was starting a magazine or something, not that I'd be stupid to start a magazine at this stage, but I would hire Brett to do a post-Empire column because it explains everything we see. And to me, when I see a Balenciaga fashion show in L.A. that is so beyond... absurd and tacky in in my mind of just who is there and the clothes they're wearing and and what these sort of famous french houses a lot of them not all of them um but but who they're going after who they're catering to doing it in la is a choice as opposed to doing it somewhere else and it just all feels like like post empire la is the capital of post empire america and and brett really nailed that but i think it's i like new york doesn't feel as culturally relevant as it used to be yeah i think the money the money part that you said like currency is the is the new cultural currency yeah and i think it's because everyone is just rich there i mean it's sort of like everyone it seems like everyone has moved out of san francisco because they're afraid of it yeah now i do my tech job in new york yeah yeah and it's just it's pushed out it's a really hard city to come to as a young person now you know you can't you can't i mean i you know it's embarrassing it's not embarrassing but it sort of sounds like a like a humble brag to say like my first apartment on east third street It was like $400 a month for a two-bedroom that I lived in with my brother in 1992. And you could do that. And you could live really well on like $15,000 a year. And I just don't think you can do that anymore. Yeah, but you can't do that anywhere. You can't do that anywhere. But I do feel like LA, you can live cheaper than New York. Yeah, definitely. Because it's so spread out. Because suddenly you're living an hour and a half subway ride out in Queens.

from Manhattan or downtown Brooklyn, and your life is spent commuting. I guess your life is spent commuting in L.A. too. Yeah, but you're in the comfort of your 2001 G-Wagon, so it's a little different. Nobody is peeing on you. That's right. At the time. I mean, L.A. is just boring as a motherfucker. I talk about all the time. It's just really boring. Like, I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I don't think that L.A. is. That's why we micro dose mushrooms every day. There's no culture. People just do stuff there because the weather nice. I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm not saying it's a good thing. And I still I don't I couldn't live in a car like I need to be able to walk outside my door. and make a left or a right, and do 50 things within half a mile. You never lived in L.A., right? Never lived in L.A., no. I mean, you used to spend a lot of time there, but it was always hotel living. Nice hotel living, by the way. Your hotel living in the book is really, that's the biggest throwback of the whole thing. Were you at the Hotel Bel Air for a month? My first time in L.A. in 1995, I was 21 years old. And I went with Graydon for the Oscars for two weeks and Bel Air for two weeks. Like, like calling, calling me Mr. Brown and just like, like testing my expense account. Like I'd order like a hundred dollar bottle of wine, which by the way, in 1995 seemed excessive. I'd order it. I'd order it with like my burger for room service at lunch. I'd be like, is this going to get me in trouble? And then it would sort of escalate, become a $300. Like it was, it was just. you're pushed so so my introduction to la was like and then it was beverly hills hotel for years and it was just like you'd get a table at at the the polo lounge and you would just like sit there and tell all your friends like yeah look like when you walk in the polo lounge there's a banquette on the right i'm sitting there from like 7 p.m to 12 just come by it's all on me like that was my that was my life yeah which is not now by the way which everyone listening is like you said expense account what is that i've never heard that it's

It's crazy to me. And once it's gone, and that's another thing about New York, by the way, is like New York was a city where the expense account economy in the creative class, not just in the banker class, but in the creative class was so important for keeping this place humming. The stuff happened in 2008, and there were all the New York Post articles about drug dealers and strippers being the ones suffering the most because everybody with an expense account was like, I can't. I'm sorry. It's over. It's all over. That era is done. Hunter Biden is the only one with an expense account anymore. I know. Even he's in trouble now. Speaking of that, Chris, I was... I have not read the book yet, unfortunately, but I was listening to an interview with you. Don't worry, Chris hated it. He thought it was not great. No, no, I said you weren't a poet, which you're not. You're a writer. By the way, I don't give a fuck. Chris loved your book so much that we are having you on the podcast right now. Well, the book, I mean, this is Chris Bate to a hundred degree. I know, I know it is. I know. I know it's a memoir about your life, but it feels like this was sort of written to get our attention. A hundred percent. It was the only reason. I was like, when I first heard you guys, I was like, how the fuck do I get it? You know, I know. I'm going to sell a book. I'm going to write it like the chapter to write a book. So you said that you said that this was supposed to be or it was originally a TV show. I will. So I wrote about a decade ago. I wrote a like half an hour cable style comedy called Disappearing Inc. And it was like present day, like 40 year old guy in a dying industry. um and i sold it to hulu i mean like ages ago and like all scripts it went nowhere and they just never returned my phone calls after like a a rewrite and everyone was like why don't you go back like do the do the original story like start in the 90s like don't start at the end where everything's collapsing and falling apart um so that was sort of the idea and it was you know it was like a year after i left vf

And I, you know, it was the money was running out and it was sort of becoming clear that like print magazine editors like myself, who spend too much money on dinners and lunches, were just totally unhirable. And I just like my digital skills are really bad. To this day. To this day. To this day. To this day. I mean, it's gotten like maybe a little bit. It's passable, but not for like. Not for, like, anything real. You're no whiz on Substack. I'm no whiz. I don't even know what, like, any of the acronyms mean. And so when someone's like, Aura says feed, I'm like, oh, yeah, of course. I don't know what anything is. I don't know what anything means. And so I was like, well, I guess I could write a book. And so that's how that came about. I like that that's how you got there. It sounds like it was really a passion project for you. 100%, yeah. You're like, bro, I don't know. I guess I'll just write a book. It was about the desperate need for cash in that moment. When you do something like this, because I've always been told by people that if you like your life, you shouldn't write a memoir because it's going to cause you problems in your life. Would you say that that is true or did you get some clearances before you started putting... pen to paper i got i kind of got clearances i mean i did you know i told grayden of course it was like one of the main characters i was like look i'm gonna do this book here i'm gonna show you the proposal hopefully you'll be okay with it um people know you smoked right i just want to make sure that's clear i know before i get into this exactly yeah it's you know it's so funny you say that it was like his one complaint to me about the book too much like he's like i didn't smoke that much And it was like, yes, you did. It was like, it was, you know, this was before smoking was banned in offices and you'd just be walking around the office with a cigarette. Like it was, that was his one complaint. He was like, he was like, I didn't smoke that much. It was like, well, he kind of did. I mean, we all did. We all did. It wasn't just you. It wasn't just you. I just can't imagine what it would feel like smoking a cigarette in, in your office. In an office. Yeah. So cool. And I, I, it's funny because I.

I sort of had cover to smoke in my office because Graydon, you know, after, you know, I was an assistant for three years or so, and then I had my own office. And so I would just shut the door and smoke. But then other people would come to my office to smoke. And so it was disgusting, by the way. Think about it, because it was like, you know, the windows don't open. Yeah, there were no windows that opened. We're four times square. It's like a sliding glass door that you close, and you have six people sitting in this tiny office. It's literally like what people do at the airport. It is. It's like the Denver airport, that enclosed glass thing. Now that I think about it, and I quit smoking probably a decade ago, and by the way, if I get jittery, I'm not chewing nicotine gum right now for obvious reasons because it would be really loud on this mic. I'm going to start to get jittery soon, so I'm just warning you because it's been half an hour without a piece of Nicorette. But you're not sober, are you? No, I'm not. You know, it's funny. I did get sober a few years ago for six months. Just to try it? Just to try it, yeah, and it didn't really hold for me. Oh, you don't say. We didn't love her. Yeah, it didn't really hold. I kind of missed. You know, it's funny. It didn't make my life any better. I got very skinny, which was like the best part about it. And I think if I'm being totally honest, I probably got sober. purely out of, like, vanity reasons. Well, whatever it takes, you know. Well, whatever it takes. Many do that. Whatever it takes. So that means alcohol was the main factor? I think so, yeah. I mean, I always drank too much. I always drank too much. Because cocaine doesn't make you fat, you know. No, no, no, I know. But see, the thing with cocaine is at a certain age, you have to stop. Because if my obituary, if I... I'm just petrified of like cocaine death at 51. You know what I mean? Or whatever. It scares the shit out of me because it's the most embarrassing way to go. Everyone will think you're like a complete cokehead and have been your whole life. And like, imagine that funeral. So I can't do any of that stuff. Stopped ages and ages ago. And I have the drink. I don't drink as much as I used to. There's something about aging. Of course. It gets harder. And, you know, the aging thing also.

The vanity thing. Like I wake up in the morning and, you know, after a night of drinking and I just I look like a Sharpay until about 2 p.m. And it's just I look at myself and I go, I can't. It's a two day hangover, three day hangover. You're not going to go to that cycle. Well, my you know what? It's funny. My problem is, A, I don't get hung over and B. I could just, I have the, as the Irish call it, um, a hollow leg. I have a hollow, I could just, I could just drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, be totally functional. No one will think I'm drunk, but it's just, it's, it's the vanity thing has gotten the best of me in my, that's, I think that's fine. I think that's okay. And I think we all, we deal with, we deal with that topic on the show all the time. I mean, you know, we, that's like, yeah, we think about that too. I mean, I, I had to stop because I was going to die, but the weight loss was a cool bonus. Totally. It was the best. That's what keeps me on the wagon, I think, is the fact that I would put on 20. And it's funny because I have two wardrobes. I have skinny AA wardrobe from a few years ago. And then I have the, boy, am I drinking way too much wardrobe. And the problem is that my... Perfect weight is probably where I am now. It's kind of like in between those two things. You know, it's not 145 pounds. It's not 175. And so it's sort of tough that my clothes are either like way too tight or way too baggy right now. That is tough. I think he might. Maybe Santa Claus will bring a third wardrobe. Yeah, I was going to say. Introduce a third. It just feels like too much effort at this point. Yeah, definitely. And it's kind of embarrassing. Yeah, well, I think it's kind of fun. I mean, you know, like buying stuff. stuff is well if you lived in LA you'd be wearing sweatpants every day so at least you're still in a place no absolutely absolutely I'm I'm so the whole athleisure thing I'm so not on board with this not for public are you a guy are you a guy that doesn't wear shorts at all no no never unless unless there are very specific rules no one wants to see a man's legs I'm sorry nobody wants you haven't seen my legs Dana I'll tell you that are they good ones or bad ones obviously good

Okay. No, I'm kidding. I still don't want to see them. Unless there is a body of water within walking distance, a man should not work. Sure, sure. It's just my rule. It's my rule. I've come around to that. I held out for a long time, but now I'm pants. I mean, we've lost, like culture has lost, we've lost all like norms of how we're supposed to behave. Like what people wear on airplanes and in airports now is just, it's an abomination. It's an abomination. Like, you know, I remember my grandfather telling me stories of like, well, everyone was in a suit and tie on the Pan Am flight to wherever. I think people should dress up a little for flying. No, I agree. That's a pre-Empire thing, I guess, right? You know what? That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Like wearing, yeah, that's right. But also, I think maybe a lot. A lot of people would be more inclined to dress up on the plane if going on the plane felt more upper class, I should say. Now, every time I go on a plane, I feel like I'm in a children's playpen or something like that. Everything's made out of plastic and shit stains on it. That's what Delta One's for. You know what I mean? Like, that's what Delta One is for. Well, that means you should only be wearing a suit or dressing up nicely if you're a first-class person. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, the greatest, aside from Flying Private, which is its own separate thing and the fantasy, have you guys ever done a greeter? Have you ever used Delta greeters? No, but I recently found out that this is... something you just ask for it is it is it is first of all you can you can tell them that you are world famous uh how much does it cost how much does it cost i i don't know because i've only done it with with like famous friends who always get greeters so they meet you at the front door right before you even go in the airport they take you a special way They take you a special way. You go through the back of the thing. They take you to the front of the line of security. They take you right to the lounge. You sit in the lounge. So you're through so quickly. And then they take you on the tarmac. And Delta has a deal with Porsche. So you literally walk outside onto the tarmac into the back of a Porsche. They drive you to the jet. And then you go up that stairwell outside. And you go. And before anyone gets on the plane, you're already sitting there.

Chris and I have been on the Porsche one time. The Porsche was just to take us to our connecting flight. Like, we had a layover. This is the celebrity treatment, and I've seen this before, obviously, but I've also seen it where they come on the plane last. Well, they ask you what you want. You have the choice. Do you want to get on first, or do you want to get on last? You're a top or a bottom, or are you versed? I just looked it up. The price tag, it's $350. per person yes and then a hundred dollars for for their additional guests which is not it's not crazy i'm i'm absolutely willing to do this this is how do you do you just call delta and you're like i'm important i'm if i'm sure if you just google like delta but if you're famous this is someone is calling your agents calling for you are they paying is it free is everybody paying no they're everyone's paying everyone's paying yeah uh i just looked it up as well It's gone up to $500 now. Okay. Which, by the way, if you're flying at a certain time of year out of a big area, if you're going through like a JFK, which is a disaster, how much is it worth to save your time? To maybe make a flight that you would be late for if you were going to sit in TSA. My question to you, Dana, based on this, is have you taken the Blade service chopper? Never. to jfk because i'm very interested in that as well no i haven't done that because it's getting from new york to jfk i mean it's like it's like driving to calcutta from here at this point like it takes so fucking long to get like it's crazy i i live on the west side so i'm always trying to fly out of newark and if i see jfk i'm just like i mean hours now Hours. We were talking about this earlier. It's an hour and a half minimum. Easy, yeah. Easy, easy. And if you go in the middle of traffic, it can be like two. I mean, I've missed flights. I was in New York last week. I landed at 2.30, got to the hotel at 5 p.m. Yep. I mean, it's just a nightmare. Have you ever been on a private plane and had a bad time? I don't think that exists.

I mean, it depends. I mean, unless you're on Epstein's plane. Like if Chris gets on the private jet and they're like, we're so sorry. The Wi-Fi is not working right now. We're going to try to reset the system right now. What would you do, Chris? Well, you know, flying private is very different. You know, there's something wonderful about a commercial flight. I mean, if you're in business or first, where they're bringing you drinks and you put your headphones on and you watch a movie or you watch a TV show, that doesn't happen on a private jet. On a private jet, you have to talk to the people you're with, whether you like them or not. But you do get to pre-order the food. The lead guest gets to pre-order. So if you're like, I want fucking Kit Kats, M&Ms, and Diet Cokes. this shit is stocked. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the last time I was on one, it was like a, like a, like a bagel salmon cream cheese spread. And I was like, not that part of it. That part of it is nice. The idea that you can just like, they ask you what you want and you're like, yeah, I won't fucking know, boo, figure it out. They'll do it. I mean, they'll do it. But the, but the best part is not having to go to a fucking airport and having a car drive onto the tarmac. They take your bags, put it in, you walk up the little, the little jet plank or whatever it's called and you're done. And there's no customs either. There's no nothing. They come on and they're like, let's see the passports and they walk off. There's no like bag check or anything. Which would be great for you, Jason, as a known drug smuggler. That would be nice. Yeah, yeah. Depending on what country I'm going to. Don't out him so publicly. It's okay. It's not real drugs. He's not... He's not moving weight. It's light. I'm not taking the fentanyl to Indonesia. I know where I'm going, what my rights are. Different places are a slap on the wrist. The other day you guys were talking about the fentanyl t-shirt. Don't wear that on the flight. Don't wear that on the flight. Somebody sent me a DM saying that shirt only works as Salem merch. Oh, yeah, the band. No, that's funny. That's funny. Well, I wanted to talk about memoirs a little bit. In addition to your memoirs, I know that you have worked in and around Keith McNally, who has a memoir coming out. Any memoir insights on that? You know anything about it?

The only thing I know about it, and I actually worked for Keith's brother, Brian. And that, like, the story of the dynamic of those two brothers, who are both, you know, Brian and Keith, both sort of East London kids who came to New York and worked in restaurants. They opened the Odeon with Keith's wife, Lynn, in the early 80s and became sort of stars. But they were like the Gallagher brothers of the New York restaurant world. They just fought all the time. So they went their separate ways. Brian opened. uh indochine you know which is still around and and totally and keith went on to um you know major major i mean probably the most important restaurateur in New York of the last half century. Keith is Liam-ing and his brother is Noel-ing, we can say. Maybe, maybe. And I love Brian and I really like both of them. I don't know Keith as well. When my book came out, Keith was living on my block for a little while. And so I saw which building he went into one day. And so I signed a book. It was about a year and a half ago when it came out. I signed a book with a nice note, Keith, your restaurants are all over this book and they've meant so much to me and they're great. And I have spent... a lot of my expense account at your at your places and i left it for him and i got a very nice i got like a a dm on instagram like 20 minutes later and he said what's your what's your phone number and i was like is he gonna call me like this is interesting um and i got a call minutes later i sent him my phone and i got a call minutes later from the balthazar reservations people and they were like just so you know we're putting you on the fancy list so anytime you need and i was like oh i was like That's the greatest gift a man can give. Since having my children, it's like the greatest day of joy I've ever had. The only problem is that the only restaurants I now eat at are either the Waverly or one of Keith's restaurants, for the most part. And Bond Street. Bond Street's another restaurant I go to if I want sushi. Bond Street is back, isn't it? Bond Street is one of my best friends opened it in...

It's been there forever. It's sort of this weird hidden gem in New York where it's super upscale, super expensive, but really fucking delicious food. Great, great food. Listen, when you're treated well at a restaurant, it makes you want to go there. When you get the best tables, that familiarity is nice. Even if the food ain't great, you're still coming back. Even if the food ain't great. And this, by the way, goes back to being a restaurant critic and you're not really a food writer. You're writing about the theater of the whole thing and all that. Tip to tail. There is probably a draft in. I don't know when it comes out, but I kind of think it's going to be a classic New York book. You know, just just everything. How much help? How much help do you think he's had? I think less than you think. Really? I agree. I think he's a good writer somewhere inside that fucked up head of his. No, I think he's really, really well read. And, you know, listen, I'm, you know, obviously I'm not a great writer, but I managed to do a book. When you read a lot, and I worked with a lot of writers, you can sort of steal writing styles from other people in a way that you can't in other art forms, you know, because people just be like you. But with writing, you sort of can. And I feel like you can. come to it later in life having read a lot or or worked with writers and be able to write yourself oh i don't think it's i don't think i just think it's so hard to do it's not about can he do it or not it's about like how committed are you to this because it's based on his instagram caption writing i think he's got many books in him i i think so too and it just takes you know it's just a long process writing a book is like yeah I mean, it's just a fucking endless process. Especially when you don't have cigarettes. Especially when you don't have cigarettes. I know. It's really brutal. Well, it's funny because I think I quit drinking when I sold the book and was really struggling on it. And when I started drinking again is when the writing really started coming back to me and how I finished the book, which is, by the way, that is not an endorsement.

of drinking to write. I don't know if it's necessarily linked. Calm down. I don't know if it's linked. I'm a firm believer in writing inebriated and editing sober. Do you write your reviews drunk or slightly askew? Mushrooms. I like mushrooms. I like to take mushrooms and write down the first. But like a small dose? Yeah, not a heroic dose. But enough to feel trippy. Enough for the keyboard to get a little silly. But not a micro dose. Oh, so not a micro dose. Yeah, some you can sink your teeth into. Lay it all out. And then from there you can kind of start whittling it down. Just to get the thing from nothing. The inception point. And then from there you can... Yeah. Sand it down into something. And do you do you like do you like writing restaurant views? Do you like do you enjoy it? I don't know, man. I don't like reading or writing, but I know. I know. Talking is my trade and what I do every day. And I feel like I'm good at doing that. Yeah. But there's just so much more and so many different, sometimes better ways to convey a feeling or a point that you can't. You can't just do it with your voice. You have to really write it down and lay out a structure and do it all. To me, it's like building a house versus building a city or something. It takes time and multiple people. The problem is once you realize that you can podcast, writing seems very laborious. That was what happened to me. Totally. That's literally what happened to me. It's just like, wait, why would I? I could do it this way, and people seem to really respond to it. takes a lot less time. You could say the same thing about a TikTok versus a film. I'm sure more people have watched a single TikTok of a guy falling down the stairs than May, December, but it's not going to touch in a certain way. I'm very grateful that we have podcasting as a way to start ideas and work them out.

yeah while being paid by mcdonald's and then those can turn into maybe a bigger overarching topic by the way your mcdonald's advertising fucking works because i crave mcdonald's like all the time and the mcdonald's there's a mcdonald's nearby like i literally went the i went to a stop by a christmas party and was walking home and my son was home and i like texted i was like you want mcdonald's and he's like yeah of course and i just couldn't help myself and the mcdonald's the mcdonald's on first of all like most mcdonald's in new york look like mad max now like you go inside and you can't believe it's like it's like the apocalypse has happened there's a guy hosing blood off the ceiling there's literally there's like people just standing around like homeless people just like not not like unable to move and you're like is he ordering is he waiting like and i and the one on sixth avenue and 14th street is I like you can't you can't believe it. And I walked in there at like 930 p.m. on a Saturday night the other day. And I was like, this is just this is the end of the world in here. I mean, it really is. It looked like a zombie apocalypse in the McDonald's. But but I but the advertising works is all is all I'm saying. How old is your son? Thank you. My son is 14. Oh, so he's a little bastard. He's like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, but I have an 18 year old daughter also. Oh, hell no. I it's what's crazy is that like. I had kids early for New York, but, like, late for the rest of the world. I think I had my first kid at, like, 33. But so now I'm in that moment where my kids don't – you know, my daughter is off at college. My son's in high school and doesn't want really anything to do with his parents. Like, he doesn't – so it's sort of like, well, what do I do now? So they don't think you're cool or they – where are they at? Where are you at with it? I think they think I'm okay. I don't think they think I'm cool. It is New York after all. yeah competition is what is he into what is your son into is he like into like basketball what are we talking about well yeah basketball and soccer he plays both of those he's definitely he's definitely gotten into the whole like streetwear hip-hop thing which i think you just can't avoid i mean that is the dominant pop culture so you're having to you're you're having to

slave way over the keyboard to buy him some travis scott dunks is a hundred a hundred percent um and you know i i made a i made a movie a documentary a few years ago that that was about hip-hop and skateboarding in new york in the late 80s and early 90s i how i i'm not part of that world how i got dragged into this is a long story um but so as part of it we i got to know a lot of the supreme guys so i was able to go to supreme and the guy was like i'll give you a big discount and everything so i was like a hero very briefly your son loved you for that year yes and still and still wear some of the stuff and my daughter was the year my son loved me i'll never forget that's you know what my that's my next memoir that's memoir number two that's that's gonna be it that's gonna be it but jason i jason i thought but wait to go back to restaurant reviewing i thought your noma review was great i thought it was really really good thank you thank you and i had my i did a review the reason i started doing reviews was a year ago or two years a year and a half ago And Graydon called me at, like, the last minute. He was like, can you go to Noma tomorrow night? Because they're doing a pop-up in New York and review it for us. Our critic has COVID. And I was like, oh, yes. Like, yeah, in a heartbeat. What a call. And secretly, the reason I wanted to do it is because I had just done ayahuasca, like, a couple weeks before. And I really wanted to write about it. I didn't want to write a piece about ayahuasca. It was like. the the worst experience of my life and i really wanted to write about it um and so i figured and i was like and the second he says i was like gnome and ayahuasca are basically the same yeah yeah yeah and and so and it's just this sort of the obsession of of humans desperation to be part of something and to then talk about something afterwards oh you know what i did you know gnome and ayahuasca the same so that was that sort of got me started

in the restaurant thing, and Graydon's like, you should do this more often. I was like, yeah, yeah, totally. It's just taken a year to get it off the ground. Sometimes that happens. That brings up something that I feel as well, which is it's such an easy thing to get your foot in the door. The wheel is spinning, and you're able to wedge your foot into it with a restaurant review, and then at least you kind of get reps, and you get skin in the game, and you're going, and then you can write about. ayahuasca through the lens of Rene Redzepi. I'm writing about Craig's, but it's about bad street art. By the way, you have to pronounce it Craig's, not Craig's. You're giving it too much weight. You're saying it like C-R-A-A-Y. Craig. I'll call it Craig. I feel like it might be from a film or something. Some character named Craig. Hi, Craig. It's from the film Friday. Is it? Where Craig at. Yeah, where Craig at. That's a slightly cooler version. That is cool. I'm from Orange County at the end of the day, so I say a lot of words badly. Yeah, we all do. So what are you doing right now? What am I doing right now? Like a number of writing projects, TV, film, trying to get... focused on i'm gonna have a bunch of tv projects and a few film projects i am very focused on trying to get my book to tv screens for sure yeah it's built for that so you're just going the back way to your original goal is you know what by the way yeah that was kind of the plan it was kind of the play and and it was sort of He's sort of calculated. So my book is under option at Warner Brothers with Berlanti, who's sort of the best company in TV to be at. And we are we are getting close to taking this thing out. And I'm sort of excited. I'm excited because it's like a 90s New York show is kind of my fantasy show.

And to be able to do it in a world that I sort of loved and was kind of insane. To me, it's a little Just Shoot Me, Sex and the City, Will and Gracie, not so much. No, I think I want something a little less sort of half an hour comedy and a little more. And this is a terribly cynical reference because I've never, ever watched the show Suits. So I don't know what I'm talking about, but it's very popular. And I'm sure when I pitch this, I will drop the Suits word. It's sort of like Suits. suits it's it's kind of like suits but like suits with the sort of the sort of like like backstabbing uh uh of succession like succession worked so and and i know chris i know you didn't connect with succession which is fine what a sweet way to put it but but the sort of like level of like luxury porn that was on oh yeah yeah yeah and just these like relationships and the conflict and you know the the media business in new york in 90s was was like brutal It was brutal, and it was just, you know, everyone was just trying to claw, get people out of the way to get ahead. And it's, you know, it sort of makes great for sort of like dark, fun drama. We need some more of that cuntiness on television nowadays, I say. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, the time is now. It's ripe, I feel like. I don't know. I mean, it's been long enough. It's been long enough. It hasn't been explored. It's been long enough, and I don't think it's been explored. And you need a sort of like insular little world to come into, to explore the sort of bigger picture of that moment culturally. Yeah, we need a comforting universe. The question we have to ask is who's going to play you, you know, if it's up to you. Is Elordi too tall? What do you think? I think he's too tall. I think he's too good looking. I think he's too old. I mean, I was like... 20 when I was hired oh okay so this is a we need a 20 year old we gotta find so we gotta find a twin we gotta find a twin by the by the way if like a Jacob Elordi wanted to do it I'm like yeah he could be he could be 27 it's fine we could figure it out um I think that's just the way the business we're not surprised to hear that yeah I think the more interesting question is who plays Graydon and obviously it's not going to be Graydon

It's going to be a Graydon-like character. A Graydon-esque character. So Graydon would be what? He'd be around 35 at the time? The early 40s. Early 40s. Okay, early 40s. Okay. Honestly, I think we're going to have to get like a serious actor in like a wig. Maybe. You know, I don't think that there's no one that like favors him. I mean, yeah, it's tricky because it will end up being sort of a composite character because that's what happens. So I guess the question is, are you going to even make an attempt to make it look like – because, like, you just mentioned the hair. And, like, the hair is kind of iconic. You can't do the hair as the reality, but you could do the trapping, like everything else. As long as everything looks like that apartment and that office and shit, then I think that kind of... I would love a young Bill Murray to do that for some reason. Oh, yeah. Get the hair from Kingpin. I know Gosling can gain the weight. Maybe we'll see about that. Who knows? No, I think that's a great... I mean, that's really fun. I mean, that sounds perfect for TV, and I love the way... Yeah. I love the way you went, did it this... Like, the way that... Did not make sense to you, but made sense to the industry that you are in where it's like I have to reverse engineer this. But I think that's a really smart. And yeah, yeah. And it only took like 10 years of my life. So sure. Well, that's the thing that I've learned about television and film is that everything takes a very long time. Everything. Yeah. And then and it's funny because once you like once it starts going, it happens really quickly. But it's most things don't happen. yeah most things do not happen um and i i made a movie a couple years ago that happened incredibly fast like so fast that we were like almost unprepared like oh my god we got to go make this and um but but usually it's either like super fast or super slow and it just takes years and years and then dies basically well we're gonna have to change the name for tv because most people can't say the word

that's the only issue i i know i know i don't i don't i don't watch foreign films really i know that word i know oh not not subtitles i did i did it i did a podcast like when when you put a book out you basically say yes to everything like you know your publishers like all these podcasters want to talk to you and i did one some woman in the south like there was like eight people it was like instagram live there were literally like seven people on it if that and she introduced me she said he's the And, and I was like, and I didn't know, I didn't know whether I should correct. Like if I corrected her, would she then hate me for correcting her? And do I look like an asshole? And so I, I think I just let that one go. And I think the whole, she was mispronouncing it the whole time. And so if anyone goes to Amazon, like how does I, how do I spell Deleante? And I, you know, they're buying like an Italian cookbook by accident. I was going to say, that sounds like a type of salsa. Yeah, exactly. All right, Dana. Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. This was a pleasure. This was really, really fun. Yeah, yeah. Thank you guys for having me. And Chris, maybe I'll see you at one of these Christmas parties or something. I know. Hopefully I'm around. I know. Hopefully I'm around. Well, the next time I'm in New York, we should link up because I've actually never eaten at Odeon. Oh, let's do it. Let me know when you're here. I didn't know that. Oh, we got to take you there. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. I know. I know that you've been, I mean, you know that place like the back of your hand. I remember the Odeon when you could still smoke in the Odeon, which was. What's your order? What's your order there? Well, my lunch order is just a salad and a piece of grilled salmon. Very rare. Okay. Kale salad? The kale. I get the kale salad with like a piece of salmon. Perfect lunch. Dinner, you know, I always go steak free when I'm at a place like that. I just can't help myself. I can't help myself. Nothing wrong with that? And what to drink? I used to have lunch at Odeon every single day during a particularly, like, boozy, bad boozy period of my life. And I would sit there and drink a bottle of stoncer with lunch alone. Like, the other person wouldn't be drinking, and I'd be like, want a glass of wine? And they would just literally put it on the table when I showed up. Now I would probably have a glass or two of red. Nice, big.

Big Bordeaux, baby. Oh, Big Bordeaux. Big Bordeaux. Or no, an Italian. Big Italian. And then a nice little piece of Nicorette at the end of the meal. Oh, it's the best. It's the best way. Oh, that's my dessert, baby. No, but honestly, thank you. It was a pleasure. And we'll definitely hang soon. 100%. And yeah, yeah. ODM when you're here. For sure. Thank you, guys.